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Weapons factories

Post by Admin on Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:00 pm

Will get them released around 6th December. Give or take a week.
There will be no further notice about when they get released, so if you dont want to be caught off guard, start building them now.
Works like training facilities except it's just for buying weapons.

I did consider that the amount of weapons factories would also limit how much you may repair per turn. But right now this is at the level of a top-off-the-head idea, so unless I see some serious negative feedback I wont bother with it.
Things to consider:
- limit only on a per turn basis?
- if saveable to be used in bulk rather quickly, how much
- if only on a per turn basis, may slow down "speed" massings, however surprise "def repairs" might also be no longer an option
- per turn basis might screw people who only have a small timeframe during the day to play and use up their attack turns to farm/raid

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Re: Weapons factories

Post by FarleShadow on Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:36 pm

The 'wep fact repairs weapons' seems like a bad idea, since it changes the game dynamic alot for no real payoff other than sheer buggery.

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Re: Weapons factories

Post by rflash on Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:29 pm

They should 100% limit how much you can repair.

The process is very simple .... at :15 and :45 like with training facilities you get a no of repair points and weapons purchase points, depending of course of the no of weapon facilities you have. You buy/repair the no goes down .... it can not go below 0 of course and it can not go above maximum.

This will work both with weapons purchases and with repair points.

What will happen if you sell weapons insted ?

What needs to be discussed is how bigger maximum is in report to what you get per turn. I think it should be something like 3-5 times what you get per turn. So if you have 1000 weapons facilities and you saved the points you can buy a maximum of 3000-5000 weapons.

This is a good way to get more advanced research options ..... let's say 1-2 races can research something that will augment this maximum .... some other race might have the option to go into negative points but at a higher cost .... there are quite a few interesting possibilities.

There is a way to combine both .... you get a no of points which can be used either for buying or for repairing. This will not affect repairs too much for regular use like farming and raiding, but will be a problem if someone wants to use 2000 STs to mass an alliance for example. It's also easier to code then separate points systems. This also works better if you take into account the fact that the points you get should be linked with your weapon level .... so if you have 1000 facilities and lvl 10 weapons you get 800*1000=800,000 points, but if you have lvl 11 you get 1,100,000 points which allows you to buy 1375 lvl 10 weapons insted of 1000 which I think is a good thing given the huge cost of levels ... getting a higher level helps you if you use less then the best weapons.

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Re: Weapons factories

Post by rflash on Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:43 pm

FarleShadow wrote:The 'wep fact repairs weapons' seems like a bad idea, since it changes the game dynamic alot for no real payoff other than sheer buggery.

If you can not come with an argument shut up.

This update has been announced for a very long time and everyone who bothered to read knew it will happen.

Every update which makes the game depend more on strategy then on time spent online is a good one in my book.

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Re: Weapons factories

Post by FarleShadow on Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:37 pm

rflash wrote:
FarleShadow wrote:The 'wep fact repairs weapons' seems like a bad idea, since it changes the game dynamic alot for no real payoff other than sheer buggery.

If you can not come with an argument shut up.

Great social skills there.

In any case, there IS a pay off for alliances if the system is changed so that weapon factories repair weapons, rather than the insta-rep we currently have, but a massive cost for anyone not involved in alliance operations. If it isn't immediately obvious, if you get massed so all of your weapons go down to zero, you are then dependant on how fast you can repair your weapon stocks. Which gives a massive opening to any alliance with people on 24 hours a day, since it wouldn't take much to just keep attacking your defenses back down to zero and making you their bitch, since you can't do shit to defend yourself.

Saving repair points? See previous point, just extend the beginning massing until exhausted.

I'm not saying the update intention, a la weapon factories actually making weapons, is bad, heck it'll make all the insta-buying weapon and vastly quick ranking a thing of the past, but without insta-repair its going to turn into 'who has the most members wins', especially verses single players.

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Re: Weapons factories

Post by rflash on Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:49 pm

lol .... does the word 'protection' exists in your vocabulary ??

1 day is enough in most cases to retrain / rearm .... but you can have up to 4 days and that's more then enough for everyone.

And you clearly didn't counted for STs .... it would be quite costly even for a big alliance to keep 1 player down.

And you also contradict yourself .... what is to stop now an alliance to do exactly what you said .... keep massing 1 player again and again and again .... it's absurd to think you can economicly compete with a medium size alliance ..... if they were able to mass you first time you can bet they can do it the second time and the third time and the forth time and so on .... but long before that you will end up broke ..... with weapon facilities in place you would have a small advantage, as some people from the alliance wont be able at certain times to help mass you because they can not repair.

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Re: Weapons factories

Post by FarleShadow on Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:47 pm

rflash wrote:And you also contradict yourself .... what is to stop now an alliance to do exactly what you said .... keep massing 1 player again and again and again .... it's absurd to think you can economicly compete with a medium size alliance ..... if they were able to mass you first time you can bet they can do it the second time and the third time and the forth time and so on .... but long before that you will end up broke ..... with weapon facilities in place you would have a small advantage, as some people from the alliance wont be able at certain times to help mass you because they can not repair.

There is acouple obvious assumptions in both, one is that you are a high player with a sizable income (Worth attacking) and two, that you are a player with enough defense to stop lower levels in their alliance from attacking you.

With the current insta-repair:
repair all weapons And you're back to full strength instantly.

Without insta-rep:
You must have sufficient weapon factories to effect a timely repair, so tons of money on weapon factories, plus you've got a significant portion of time where you are only at x%-capacity in terms of weapon repair, leaving you open to low level players raiding you.

In fundamental terms, all it does is add another layer of non-strategy that is vastly more exploitable to anyone with a large force than the current system

Also: Protection is just another delaying tactic that gives you BOTH breathing space, even if you use that time to rearm, it just means that the enemy ALSO has the time to rearm.
And just because something costs alot, doesn't mean that people aren't going to do it, it just varies the desire to hit a particular target.

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Re: Weapons factories

Post by rflash on Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:24 am

Lol .... let me tell you a secret .... when you get massed beside weapons you also lose quite alot of soldiers.

Assuming either you log in right after or that you aren't attacked by lower levels ... which I think it's a very optimistic approach .... after buying weapons you will be at most at 70% of your previous strength which obviously allows for more people to attack you.

If they do a decent job however you will be lucky to get back to 50% ... so clearly buying the weapons on the spot doesn't help you very much.

If they do a good job instant weapons won't help you because you will have to wait for troops to be trained.

Weapons facilities aren't that expensive to begin with and they do add quite alot of strategy to the game.

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Re: Weapons factories

Post by FarleShadow on Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:28 am

So basically what you are saying is it doesn't matter what system we run under, the net result will ultimately be the same.

So why change?

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Re: Weapons factories

Post by Alex on Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:30 am

FarleShadow wrote:So basically what you are saying is it doesn't matter what system we run under, the net result will ultimately be the same.

So why change?

How is it a changing? It's just introducing a system that was going to be introduced for a while now. (As far back as I can remeber which is since 21st Oct lol)

*Runs to buy weapon factories*

Although I personally am against the idea of weapon factories repairing weapons, I am for them just buying weapons.

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Re: Weapons factories

Post by FarleShadow on Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:22 am

Alex wrote:
Although I personally am against the idea of weapon factories repairing weapons, I am for them just buying weapons.
-Alex

The 'Weapon factories repairing weapons' is the only point I don't like, as previously stated, it'd sure stop rank jumping like it is now.

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Re: Weapons factories

Post by Admin on Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:58 am

FarleShadow wrote:The 'Weapon factories repairing weapons' is the only point I don't like, as previously stated, it'd sure stop rank jumping like it is now.
how can repairing weapons stop rank jumping?

and rflash, please be less aggressive, even if people use bad methods of posting without presenting arguments.

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Re: Weapons factories

Post by Nomad on Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:47 am

I think hes refering to having 1 weapon for raiding, then buying full weapons to jump rank. This will stop that.

My question is, is the repairing going to be like buying? You put in a price, and it auto repair each turn till the kewal is gone or weapons repaired, or do you physically have to be there and manually repair per turn?

I think the second would be horrible for those with a R/L and a job with long hours. Take myself for example. I work 12 hrs a day. I could log in before work and repair 1 time, it would be 12/13 hrs and i would be back to repair for the 2 or 3 hrs i have before bed, then 7/8 hrs of sleep. So other then the weekends thats about 6/8 times a day i can repair.

also, how much can you repair per turn? To go from your weapons being destroy on the next hit, to fully repaired, how many turns?
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Re: Weapons factories

Post by Alex on Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:23 am

I agree that it would be very bad to have to manually repair each turn if you have more repairs than you can do at once...

Even if your online heaps like me Razz

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Re: Weapons factories

Post by Admin on Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:54 pm

hence the possible idea that the "repair points" will add up in a reserve to some extent that.

Although overall i'm starting to think i wont bother with the idea of repair points at all.
It's like trying to apply band aids on a double fracture.

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Re: Weapons factories

Post by Kenzu on Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:22 pm

I like the idea of the repairing, but it should not repair more than a couple points per turn and it would be paid from the bank.


How about realm alert will autorepair?

None = 0 repair
Low = repairs weapons by 2 point per turn
Medium = repairs weapons by 3 points per turn
High = repairs weapons by 4 points per turn
Critical = repairs weapons by 5 points per turn
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Re: Weapons factories

Post by Admin on Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:32 pm

too much work, too little benefit.

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Re: Weapons factories

Post by Nomad on Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:28 am

Well you do need to decide if your going to make it so weapons dont need repairs, and are lost as soilders die.
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Re: Weapons factories

Post by Kenzu on Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:49 pm

Nomad wrote:Well you do need to decide if your going to make it so weapons dont need repairs, and are lost as soilders die.

I think it wouldn't be a bad idea if weapons get destroyed completely as soldiers die. It would make massing more balanced, since weapons would be going to be destroyed in every single assault and not at some magical point where they reach 0 hitpoints. and all of sudden defenseless defense soldiers would be storming your machine guns Very Happy

Besides, I think it's pretty reasonable that when soldiers get killed (by a grenade or explosion), the weapon will be destroyed as well.
Especially if they have APCs, IFV or other vehicles, since most likely they won't die if they are in a tank unless the tank is destroyed itself.
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Re: Weapons factories

Post by Nomad on Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:00 am

I think alot of people want to see the idea in action (Beta) before committing to it.
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Re: Weapons factories

Post by Lord Ishurue on Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:43 am

you guys lost me with all the math lol .

What about weapons factory being able to repair a portion of your destroyed weapons. the amount of factories = the amount of points per turn that are fix . once the weapons are fix they are added to your armory .

example
You get massed and all of your defense weapons are broken .

A message will pop up saying : despite this catastrophic event your army was able gather parts from the destroyed weapons , your factory workers determine x% of the destroyed weapons can be rebuilt . Go to Weapons factory now!!

on average you can rebuild 2 - 10% of destroyed weapons ( Or an amount Admin seems approriate )
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Re: Weapons factories

Post by Magnus on Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:53 pm

Lord Ishurue wrote:you guys lost me with all the math lol .

What about weapons factory being able to repair a portion of your destroyed weapons. the amount of factories = the amount of points per turn that are fix . once the weapons are fix they are added to your armory .

example
You get massed and all of your defense weapons are broken .

A message will pop up saying : despite this catastrophic event your army was able gather parts from the destroyed weapons , your factory workers determine x% of the destroyed weapons can be rebuilt . Go to Weapons factory now!!

on average you can rebuild 2 - 10% of destroyed weapons ( Or an amount Admin seems approriate )


Now you have to admit that is a cool Idea and would make snse. In wars never all of the weapons are lost. Plus this would make it harder to mass someone into the ground. Take a bit longer and it will work. Arrow Probably lol! But all in all what he said bom
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Re: Weapons factories

Post by Alex on Tue Dec 08, 2009 2:09 pm

Just wondering about the status of this update. It's after the 6th and as of yet no announced update. I'm aware that the original post said give or take a week, I was just wondering if you could let us know the approximate time frame from now, as we are closer to the intended release (Almost at the end of the announced time frame in fact).

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Re: Weapons factories

Post by seaborgium on Tue Dec 08, 2009 3:16 pm

This was most likey put on hold till a decision was made to keep weapons are they are or chagne the system.

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Re: Weapons factories

Post by Admin on Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:22 pm

Actually it wasn't put on hold. I just decided i wont bother with the repair stuff.

So coming back to alex's question.
I am pretty confident that the first 2 lines in this thread pretty much explain all there is to know about this update

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