Massing [Assault]

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Massing [Assault]

Post by Admin on Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:13 pm

Massing has been tested with an automatic script under following conditions:
(these are not the conditions under which you can mass others which are currently set up on the online version, but they can be uploaded instantly once system is fixed)
Defender 1 mil supers armed with the best weapon.
All attacking units aremd with an identical best weapon.
No attack or defense techs for either attacker or defender.
No attack or defense personal bonus for either attacker or defender.
Attack weapons repaired after each hit
Attack supers retrained to original amount after each hit
Assault mission [designed for massing]

Defense Weapon value 1.842 Tril Kuwal

Case 1:
Attacker 200k supers (1/5 power)
Losses: 2,011k units
Weapon Repair costs: 2.028 Tril Kuwal
Initial Weapon investment 0.368 Tril Kuwal (60% of value recovered if sold)
Defender left with 350k Supers
73 Attacks needed to destroy defense

Case 2:
Attacker 1 Mil supers (identical power)
Losses: 734k units
Weapon Repair costs: 2.063 Tril Kuwal
Initial Weapon investment 1.842 Tril Kuwal (60% of value recovered if sold)
Defender left with 134k Supers
33 Attacks needed to destroy defense

Case 3:
Attacker 5 Mil supers (5 times power)
Losses: 364k units
Weapon Repair costs: 4.546 Tril Kuwal
Initial Weapon investment 9.210 Tril Kuwal (60% of value recovered if sold)
Defender left with 88K Supers
24 Attacks needed to destroy defense

Numbers can vary by around 10% up or down as not all battles are identical, but these are the general numbers.
Keep in mind that generally those who mass often will have a significant strike tech/personal bonus at their disposal which is higher than the opponents defense tech/personal bonus (as not everyone focuses on defense). In these cases therefore the costs will get automatically tilted more to the favor of the attacker.

Also it is to note that attack units as well as weapons are vulnerable in this game, so even if in case 2 the attacker can suffer less losses, if his units get killed at a later time he looses those 1 mil he's left with too


Suggestions, comments, criticism?


Last edited by Admin on Thu Dec 18, 2008 5:46 pm; edited 4 times in total
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Re: Massing [Assault]

Post by Nomad on Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:51 am

Well I'm new here and don't want to stir the pot but,,,,

I'm not sure I fully understand what your saying with all this. Looks to me like going massive strike is far cheaper as a masser. Another thing that worries me is the fact that now ALL units but income units are killable so in case 3. After the Def is dead then the player can have covert and Anticovert hunted and killed as well. Now that in and of itself doesn't bother me as much as there not being a way to slow or stop certain things.

I don't understand realm alert here. Is there covert phasing or can you be sabbed to 0 and all covert/anti killed? does Critical alert do anything concerning massings? what exactly is the 60% protection you get from crit?
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Re: Massing [Assault]

Post by Admin on Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:30 am

1)
Nomad wrote:I'm not sure I fully understand what your saying with all this. Looks to me like going massive strike is far cheaper as a masser.
Wrong, as shown each case yields a different outcome in terms of how many units you lost and how much kuwal you spent repairing.
case 1 you loose many more units and you need many more attacks but your repair costs are relatively low, case 5 you loose much less units but your weapon repairs are very high.

2)
Nomad wrote:Another thing that worries me is the fact that now ALL units but income units are killable so in case 3. After the Def is dead then the player can have covert and Anticovert hunted and killed as well.
Even if i have absolutely NO (0) assassin action and you try to assassinate my units, you will still loose a bit (albeit not much) units.
Same goes for covert. It is not enough to send JUST enough spies or assassins to beat my respective action and then you go killing millions of units or weapons, you need to send more, further increasing your own losses.

3)
Nomad wrote:Now that in and of itself doesn't bother me as much as there not being a way to slow or stop certain things.
There is no need for such a thing in this game, considering that all attacks, sabs and assassinations cost turns, and i mean SUPPLY not just ATTACK, which are untradeable. Which means even if you save them up you can only do so many attacks/sabs/assassinations at one point in time.

4)
Nomad wrote:I don't understand realm alert here. Is there covert phasing or can you be sabbed to 0 and all covert/anti killed?
None whatsoever, point 3 demonstrates that the purpose of "phasing" is not needed in this game, as it is meant to limit amount of attacks, that has already been achieved.

Nomad wrote:does Critical alert do anything concerning massings?
It neither does anything in sgw, only in conjunction with nox, however noticing the lack of nox option in this game yields the conclusion that critical alert has absolutely no effect on massings.

Nomad wrote:what exactly is the 60% protection you get from crit?
It is the same as with any other game, increases how much enemy units are needed to send to infiltrate your base, covert or assassin.
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Re: Massing [Assault]

Post by Nomad on Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:49 am

1. True, I see this. My train of thought was the "build up, farm server, sell off, go inactive". I do see prodominant point later tho.

2. OK, point made. It just worries me as it often goes in launch that 50 to 75% of ALL active players join 1 alliance. So far that doesnt seem to be happening here and thats good to see. If it did, it would lead to problems if the top alliance can kill the Def, then assasinate ALL other units so they can farm them. I hope this doesn't happen here

3. Now this I do understand and I now realise that yes with 2 minute turns it does seem unlimited but in live mode this will become a problem. Will there be a cap on "supply" turns?

4. I kinna disagree with you here, but I am intriqued at the supply and Attack turn set up. We can discuss this point later as I am willing to give anything a shot. Its new and different so lets see how it goes.

5. Critical does do something concerning massings. It adds a time delay between attacks. Pt 3 does cover this tho. It does concern me that at some point certain accounts may become "unmassable" due to a shortage of supply turns, but we will see. Lets try it first.

6. If you think about it, it really should effect other stats, But its all new so lets work with it awhile.

TY for your replies, good work Admin
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Re: Massing [Assault]

Post by Admin on Thu Dec 18, 2008 12:53 pm

Nomad wrote:1. True, I see this. My train of thought was the "build up, farm server, sell off, go inactive". I do see prodominant point later tho.
you can only sell off weapons, your attack units are still a possible target and can get eradicated

Nomad wrote:2. OK, point made. It just worries me as it often goes in launch that 50 to 75% of ALL active players join 1 alliance. So far that doesnt seem to be happening here and thats good to see. If it did, it would lead to problems if the top alliance can kill the Def, then assasinate ALL other units so they can farm them. I hope this doesn't happen here
doing that will cost them resources, and a significant amount (not like massing defenses and only paying one tenth or one twentieth of what the defense cost), therefore they will not bother nor will they be able to go and destroy every single person that hits them because of the supply turns which you cannot trade but must wait to accumulate (plus if you use them all you can't even farm until you got some again).

Nomad wrote:Will there be a cap on "supply" turns?
There are 2 main ways it can be done, high cap and low recovery rate, and high recovery rate and low cap. Both have advantages and disadvantages, the full details are not yet certain, but there will be a cap on supply turns.

Nomad wrote:5. Critical does do something concerning massings. It adds a time delay between attacks.

Only when used in conjunction with nox, without nox it doesn't do anything except increase sabotage protection.

Nomad wrote:It does concern me that at some point certain accounts may become "unmassable" due to a shortage of supply turns, but we will see.

shortage of supply turns is an impossibility as they are not tradeable, all you need to do is wait a few days and you have enough.
If you don't seem to have enough at any point in time then maybe you should reconsider how you are spending them. You will have just as many as everyone else, not less, not more.
+ gives a better fighting advantage to "smaller" more numerous alliances than to less numerous but "larger" alliances.

Nomad wrote:6. If you think about it, it really should effect other stats, But its all new so lets work with it awhile.
At most i can imagine that you loose less a bit less defenders when on alert as they are more vigilant and respond faster when attacked.
And anyways, technically defense and strike already receives protection from it, seeing that an enemy needs to exert more effort to damage them via sabotage or assassination.
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Re: Massing [Assault]

Post by Nomad on Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:26 am

Again, thank you for your replies and letting me in on your train of thought.
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Re: Massing [Assault]

Post by chaos on Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:03 pm

would we have seen you in any of these games before Nomad, you seem to have a knowledge of the innerworkings of the game.
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Re: Massing [Assault]

Post by Nomad on Sat Dec 20, 2008 1:42 am

chaos wrote:would we have seen you in any of these games before Nomad, you seem to have a knowledge of the innerworkings of the game.

Yes sir you have.

I would like to shed the old persona's for a new one here so if you don't mind I would assune not reveal my alter egos. If I talk much you will surely know tho LOL
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Re: Massing [Assault]

Post by chaos on Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:07 pm

but i already do, nd respect your choice not to state it
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Re: Massing [Assault]

Post by Nomad on Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:23 pm

chaos wrote:but i already do, nd respect your choice not to state it

Thank you.

Cool
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Re: Massing [Assault]

Post by Q man on Sat Dec 20, 2008 9:51 pm

i don't know.... Neutral

*meh* i don't really care either....... Cool
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Re: Massing [Assault]

Post by Admin on Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:43 pm

ok, released this as is shown, adjustments will be made in the future when it will be deemed appropriate
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Re: Massing [Assault]

Post by Nomad on Wed Dec 24, 2008 5:29 pm

Thanks admin
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