Sabotage mechanics

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Sabotage mechanics

Post by Admin on Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:54 am

Before the last update sabotage worked by taking into account the whole armory of the victim (you can destroy around 4% of the enemy inventory with each regular sab)
Then when the sabbing started it went to destroy defense weapons first and strike weapons second.

Example 1:
100 defense weapons and 100 strike weapons
Destroyed => ~8 defense weapons (~4%)

All the last update did was give the sabber a choice between hitting defense weapons or strike weapons first.


Question:
Should the damage formula consider the WHOLE armory (as it is right now, see example 1) or should it consider ONLY the armory part which you designate to destroy (see example 2)


Example 2:
100 defense weapons and 100 strike weapons
Strike weapons designated for destruction
Destroyed => ~4 strike weapons (~4%)
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Re: Sabotage mechanics

Post by rflash on Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:39 pm

Option 2.

It makes sense that if you chose what kind of weapons you destroy to target only those and not all the armory. If you could move the weapons from the defensive role to attacking role or viceversa then to count them all it would make sense, but you can't do that.

Plus, sabotage and assassination need to make some kind of similar damage and again I take the sgw ascended server as an example .... assassination is 1000x more powerfull then sabotage. They need to be balanced so the game mechanics are more complex.

Sabotage costs less in terms of turns .... does 1% more damage and if we assume a balanced attack / defense if all the weapons are counted does 2x more damage .... so you might end up destroying 8% of attack / defense weapons but only 3% of troops. That's quite a difference. Plus ... in both operations you lose 5%, but only sabotage is influenced by points bonuses so you need 40% less trained units to get the same power in case someone has the 66% bonus. So in the end, by losing the same no of units sabotage does 3-4 more damage then assassination, so I think it's time to balance those odds.

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Re: Sabotage mechanics

Post by Kenzu on Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:47 pm

I agree, assassinations should be more effective, to make it balanced with covert attacks. afterall covert turns are free.
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Re: Sabotage mechanics

Post by damgood on Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:17 pm

definately option 2

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Re: Sabotage mechanics

Post by Jernej on Thu Apr 16, 2009 4:49 pm

Weapons should be separated like it is now, no switching between off and deff!
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Re: Sabotage mechanics

Post by Kenzu on Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:28 pm

Kenzu wrote:I agree, assassinations should be more effective, to make it balanced with covert attacks. afterall covert turns are free.

As I said before, ASSASSINATIONS must be made STRONGER,
NOT SABOTAGE make WEAKER.


Therefore assassinations should kill let's say 8% of target units
and sabotage 4% of all units, but you get to choose which weps to destroy first.
(or 8% destroyed of only the unit type you choose)

With the losses you get even when you are successful and the cost of turns, both covert and assassins are hardly of any use, except for the unlikely chance that the opponent didnt train any. It is clear how weak they are, when you simply look at how many assassins and spies are being trained. Way too little. Very the amount of defense units is larger than spies and assassins COMBINED! Players who have spies or assassins more than defense are almost nonexistent. This is largely to the fact how little damage they do, and how many of them are lost in each mission.
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Re: Sabotage mechanics

Post by Admin on Sun Apr 19, 2009 8:34 pm

Now, we've got something released but still there's room for improvement.
2 suggestions have been put forward that I feel make decent sense.

1) Sabotage will destroy 4% defense weapons and 4% attack weapons, your only option to choose would be to select which weapon type gets destroyed first if you don't send enough extra power to destroy all weapons. (which means we are pretty much from where we started, technically 4% of all weps get destroyed, just more balanced then)

2) Assassination gets changed to require covert turns instead of attack turns, supply cost remains the same. (makes sense imho, secret attack, covert turns)
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Re: Sabotage mechanics

Post by Nomad on Sun Apr 19, 2009 10:10 pm

Admin wrote:Now, we've got something released but still there's room for improvement.
2 suggestions have been put forward that I feel make decent sense.

1) Sabotage will destroy 4% defense weapons and 4% attack weapons, your only option to choose would be to select which weapon type gets destroyed first if you don't send enough extra power to destroy all weapons. (which means we are pretty much from where we started, technically 4% of all weps get destroyed, just more balanced then)

2) Assassination gets changed to require covert turns instead of attack turns, supply cost remains the same. (makes sense imho, secret attack, covert turns)

Personally I agree with both, and both make sense.

1. by chosing only 1 weapon type you had effectively cut its strength in half, I feel this suggestion covers this problem and restores a bit of bite back to sabbing

2. I think it makes more sense too, only down side I see is it will limit how much damage you can do, and one ability to "sit" on another as covert turns cant be bought/traded
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Re: Sabotage mechanics

Post by Admin on Sun Apr 19, 2009 10:24 pm

well I aim to make it so that you cannot go around annoying people knowing you cannot get hurt by others even if they are more powerful.

On the other hand if you do annoy enough people who band together they will really be able to keep you down at the expense of their own growth.
Plus if you want to destroy someone weigh the costs and benefits
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Re: Sabotage mechanics

Post by Kenzu on Sun Apr 19, 2009 10:50 pm

Admin wrote:Now, we've got something released but still there's room for improvement.
2 suggestions have been put forward that I feel make decent sense.

1) Sabotage will destroy 4% defense weapons and 4% attack weapons, your only option to choose would be to select which weapon type gets destroyed first if you don't send enough extra power to destroy all weapons. (which means we are pretty much from where we started, technically 4% of all weps get destroyed, just more balanced then)

2) Assassination gets changed to require covert turns instead of attack turns, supply cost remains the same. (makes sense imho, secret attack, covert turns)

Sounds all good!
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Re: Sabotage mechanics

Post by Admin on Sat Apr 25, 2009 4:48 pm

Ehm, ok if I don't hear any counterarguments soon i'll get to do this sometime
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Re: Sabotage mechanics

Post by Kenzu on Sat Apr 25, 2009 6:38 pm

Let´s say successful sabs will destroy 5% of all weapons (you loose 5% spies)

successful assassin will destroy 4.5%-5.5% of target group STRIKE, DEFENSE, COVERT or ASSASSIN, (you loose 5% assassins)

attacks should cost COVERT TURNS and SUPPLY TURNS, no attack turns involved, since this isnt a strike mission.
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