the Wiki...

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the Wiki...

Post by kingkongfan1 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:10 am

the following may sound like a personal attack on admin, but I promise you it isn't. this is me attempting to make a point & this is the only way I know how...

a few days ago admin made this statement...
Admin wrote:
It's a shame people don't use the wiki

1) I for one, HAVE read the Wiki, & personally have found very little useful, or up to date info, other than a bit of advice for new players to the game. the info on the PTR is useless & outdated. the info on the commander/officer setup is outdated, & very unclear in the explanation of how it works, & there IS NO useful information for the officer. nothing showing the info like with the old PTR system. In the Wiki, the "officer" page has been deleted. the "research" page currently has no text. the "registration advice" page states-

article explaining that when creating an account one should consider some factors

got enough free time to attack others for kuwal

passive defensive or active aggressive play preferred

like to use stealth to deal damage to enemies without fearing instant retaliation etc.

explaining both race choice and personal bonus distribution
trying top click on any of these gets you nowhere.

the "unit production" page does have some useful info for beginners.
the "income" page will be equally useful to beginners.
the "training" page will be helpful to beginners.
the "armory" page? states the following...
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Nothing useful here.

can't click on either- "Building Strike/Defense" or- "Building Covert/Assassin"
Nothing useful here either.

this is partly useless as well...
Trade Center

The Trade Center is known as the "Galactic Market" and it is a place where players exchange goods or services.

Trades are two-sided : Public Trades (which are dependable of market trades and their based on average exchange rates) and Private Trades (exclusive for player - to - player trades).

The Galactic Market has four subcategories : Galactic Private Market, Private Trade Broker, Mercenary Market and Black Market. (all the four subcategories have been deleted.)

the "commander" page has some useful info, but does not explain how the "officer" is supposed to get the info needed to broker that players "commander" if said commander has a tendency to overpay, to keep the ratio equal. also the only info admin has given us so far is...
Admin wrote:
No one needs to do anything anymore, it's all automatic now. Everyone has the option of reversing it easily if they want to
I don't understand this comment, especially the part in bold & underlined, so I left my commander & will not take another until a clear explanation is given.
the "alliance" page has minimal info, but it explains things well. on the other hand the "list of alliances" page states- "There is currently no text in this page."
the "strikes missions" page has some Imo Inadequate info on "attacks" & "raid". & no info on "assault", "Hunt Assassins", "Invasion", & "Destruction".
the info contained on the "covert Missions" page has some useful info, but also creates questions that may confuse new players.
the "assassin Mission" page does do as good a job of explaining as any I have seen.
the info given on Aderan Wars "The Beginning" page is lackluster at best.
the info given on Aderan Wars "Evolutions" is misleading as it gives the impression that "Evolutions" is still up & running. which it isn't.
I do not play RA, so I didn't read anything about it in the Wiki cause I wouldn't know if it were correct or not.
the "Ingame Resources" page actually has good & useful info.
the "List of alliances" page is Imo useless info & is full of disbanded alliances. having them all listed would Imo tend to confuse new players when they got ingame & couldn't find the "missing" alliances.
the "mercenaries" page is outdated & contains confusing info as there are no longer "supers" in AW.
the "Trade Balance System" page is Imo quite long & drawn out, containing info that will confuse the player new to AW, causing them to seek info either from the game forums, or from other players.
the "how to Fight" page contains useful info, but the average new player to AW will still have questions, ergo the same as above.
the "how to grow" page does explain 1 of many ways to grow.
"12 useful hints for playing" Is useful to the beginner, new to AW.
most the "discussion" pages have been deleted, or contain no/limited/undecipherable info, same with the "history" pages.

In the end I guess I do not understand why admin would make such a statement, for as I have pointed out, the Wiki has very little useful/current info, leading players both new & old to seek out answers from other places. mainly, other players, or the game forums.

so If I offended you admin, then please accept my humble apologizes. I am just stating what I am seeing as a player of AW.
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Re: the Wiki...

Post by Admin on Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:57 am

I am happy that you wrote this because you've written precisely the first reaction I was expecting someone to write (noticeable by the fact that I left it as one single sentence instead of at least a paragraph of text like I normally do), maybe later we can get to the others (but those aren't that much important anyway)

It's clear that by "use the wiki" I didn't mistype it as "read the wiki" as you've correctly pointed it out. You're kinda stating the obvious if you say that 2-3 year old information is ... well ... old and outdated.

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Re: the Wiki...

Post by kingkongfan1 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:32 am

Admin wrote:I am happy that you wrote this because you've written precisely the first reaction I was expecting someone to write (noticeable by the fact that I left it as one single sentence instead of at least a paragraph of text like I normally do), maybe later we can get to the others (but those aren't that much important anyway)

It's clear that by "use the wiki" I didn't mistype it as "read the wiki" as you've correctly pointed it out. You're kinda stating the obvious if you say that 2-3 year old information is ... well ... old and outdated.

this response confuses me somewhat, If I am not supposed to "read" the info in/on the Wiki, then I need a definition to the "use the wiki". how is one supposed to "use" it? never mind, don't waste the effort trying to explain.
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Re: the Wiki...

Post by Nomad on Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:47 am

It is simple Kong. A wiki is a place for users to update things as well as the admins. The wiki can be altered/updated my people like yourself and myself. Basically Admin is saying he wishes someone would do his and Kenzu's job for them as it just to much for them to do. Me personally If I tried to update it, it would have to be deleted and rewritten by someone who actually knows how things work and is not just guessing at how they work.
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Hipocracy
hy·poc·ri·sy
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–noun, plural -sies.

1. a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess.
2. the practice of professing standards, beliefs, etc, contrary to one's real character or actual behavior, esp the pretense of virtue and piety
3. a pretense of having some desirable or publicly approved attitude.

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Re: the Wiki...

Post by Admin on Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:43 am

Nomad wrote:Basically Admin is saying he wishes someone would do his and Kenzu's job for them as it just to much for them to do.
Actually I'm saying
a) it would usually be easier to find info on the wiki than on the forum and
b) there's a clear lack of interest in the wiki and has been since its beginning

95-98% of the info that is there WAS written by kenzu and it didn't take just a few minutes either, also multiple times there was a huge problem about spam bots, so clearing the crap and installing blockers that worked through trial and error took quite some time too.
But then no one bothered to either point out old info, suggest which pages should get done next, let alone change anything (notice how this implies both situations where me and kenzu do all the edits as well as potentially get help from others and fix mistakes)
The logical conclusion of that is there's no interest in using it, so why waste time continuing working on it

Well anyways, my guess is that 40-50 Hours of work and the wiki could have most the information one will ever need (another 10-20 hours on top of that and it would actually have fancy info like extra stats tables, etc.). 50% would be common knowledge/copy paste from tooltips/updates page. 35-45% needs copy pasting from forum (technical parts like losses calculations, mission losses, etc) and maybe 5-15% needs actual clarification.

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Disclaimer:
1) You are always welcome to correct my assumptions and understanding of a situation but please do so in a logical and sound manner.
2) If I ask stupid questions it's only because sometimes people aren't smart enough to ask these themselves.
3) Being condescending to some people helps me keep my sanity when I am forced to interact with them.

I hate PR, will never engage in it and will rain destruction on all who refuse to use their brains to think before they speak.
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Re: the Wiki...

Post by kingkongfan1 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:06 pm

Nomad wrote:It is simple Kong. A wiki is a place for users to update things as well as the admins. The wiki can be altered/updated my people like yourself and myself. Basically Admin is saying he wishes someone would do his and Kenzu's job for them as it just to much for them to do. Me personally If I tried to update it, it would have to be deleted and rewritten by someone who actually knows how things work and is not just guessing at how they work.

no offense, but this is EXACTLY why I never have & never will use any Wikipedia. you never know if what you are reading is correct or some BS some asshole dreamed & posted there for giggles. Also with the amount of free time I have throughout the day, I would volunteer to help, but to be successful at it I would need to understand what is needing to be posted, which I don't. I did go into the Wiki once & corrected some false information someone had posted, when I went in the next day to do some more all my work had been altered so I walked away & have not been back. In my opinion, the Wiki should be scrapped because as admin pointed out with all the hours involved in posting the pertinent info, coupled with the need to constantly monitor it due to troublemakers going in & changing info, it is more hassle than it is worth to maintain. besides I like to "play" the games I am involved with not waste precious "playtime" having to do boring activities such as fix Wiki mistakes.
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Re: the Wiki...

Post by Admin on Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:02 pm

so your point is that if there's an easily corrected flaw on anything in your life, you will start avoiding it, I find that a shame but to each his own I guess and unfortunately I know many such people.

I see no reason to scrap it, after the initial writing, the maintenance time would be minimal since no one with the correct permissions would be able to make changes anyway, so there would be no vandalism or spambots

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Disclaimer:
1) You are always welcome to correct my assumptions and understanding of a situation but please do so in a logical and sound manner.
2) If I ask stupid questions it's only because sometimes people aren't smart enough to ask these themselves.
3) Being condescending to some people helps me keep my sanity when I am forced to interact with them.

I hate PR, will never engage in it and will rain destruction on all who refuse to use their brains to think before they speak.
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Re: the Wiki...

Post by kingkongfan1 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:00 pm

Admin wrote:so your point is that if there's an easily corrected flaw on anything in your life, you will start avoiding it, I find that a shame but to each his own I guess and unfortunately I know many such people.

I see no reason to scrap it, after the initial writing, the maintenance time would be minimal since no one with the correct permissions would be able to make changes anyway, so there would be no vandalism or spambots

1) my previous post sounds really harsh after going back & re-reading it & I apologize, I wanted to edit it but you got here & responded to it first.
2) this is in response to the statement in red above- my "REAL LIFE" is kept separate from & takes "PRIORITY" over my "GAME LIFE" the Wiki falls under the game life category & holds minimal/no bearing on what happens in my "LIFE" so your statement Imo is pointless.
3) this is in response to the term in blue- nothing on the Wiki is "EASILY" done. (your definition of "easily" must differ from mine somewhat) getting "permission" to do anything on the Wiki was/is an aggravating, time consuming, pain in the ass. then with the "permission" I had, I was very limited on what "corrections" I could make to what I was trying to correct. then when I went back the next day, not only had all my work been altered, my "permissions" had been changed as well. IMO if you want people/players to "USE" the Wiki, it needs to be more "USER FRIENDLY" instead of the pain in the ass it is.

In the end, it is "YOUR" game, you do whatever ""YOU" want to do, but for "ME" as a paying customer, "I" would like to have clear easy to understand instructions/directions/information on what "RECENT CHANGES" have been made in the game. Especially the changes that have not been previously discussed in public on these forums, but apparently that is too much to ask. let me be clear here, the "updates" page is informative, but there are still many questions that I & many others have that you have not answered, & apparently have no intention of answering. If I & others cannot get the answers we are looking for from "reading" the Wiki, what good is it? if we cannot get the answers we seek from these forums, what good is it? how can we be expected to get proper/correct information from other players if they themselves have no answers to the questions?

"Final thoughts"...

It really pisses me off when I "DONATE" money to a game, & the administration of that game leaves me feeling like I just got shit on. & such is the case here. It should be easy, as in I ask a question, you give me a clear easy to understand answer, but for whatever reason you cannot seem to give any clear easy to understand answers.

I apologize for getting angry, & I've said all I have to say concerning this thread. (for now)
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Re: the Wiki...

Post by Admin on Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:11 pm

thank you for your input
to correct you, giving permissions to users we know who they are and can then avoid anonymous vandalism would be very EASY thing to do

As I explained I just wished you had rather posted one post whenever you noticed your input on the wiki disappearing, since you do post in the bug section anyway, which means it's still accurate what I said however I still fail to understand why it happened.

_________________
Disclaimer:
1) You are always welcome to correct my assumptions and understanding of a situation but please do so in a logical and sound manner.
2) If I ask stupid questions it's only because sometimes people aren't smart enough to ask these themselves.
3) Being condescending to some people helps me keep my sanity when I am forced to interact with them.

I hate PR, will never engage in it and will rain destruction on all who refuse to use their brains to think before they speak.
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