january 1, 2013 updates discussion thread.

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january 1, 2013 updates discussion thread.

Post by Special Agent 47 on Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:48 pm

I broke up the bullets to numbers so anyone wanting to discuss a certain part can simple post the number and start discussion from there. Full update is quoted in the spoiler.
Spoiler:
1 January 2013:

NEW FEATURES:
1.Airforce:
- After constructing an airport you will be given access to building an airforce
- There are 4 unit types for the airforce. SAMs defend your empire from all other airforce units when they attack you. Fighters help both in attack and defense, however they can only destroy other fighters, bombers and helicopters when they are both in the air (such as when bombers attack you). Bombers and Helicopters can destroy enemy SAMs as well as attack the targets you wish to engage on your missions (attack enemy landed airforce, destroy production facilities, etc.)
- Fighters, bombers and helicopters are built in aircraft factories. SAMs in SAM factories.
- Fighters, bombers and helicopters require free hangar space before construction can start, 1 unit per hangar. These hangars are built like any other building. SAMs do not require hangars.
- Each unit type needs a specific munition type for battle. All types of munition is built in munition factories.
- To reach maximum possible action on any stat you need to have 10 pieces of munition for each unit of that particular type (if you have 100 SAMs, you need 1,000 SAM rockets). The action is then calculated by the power of the units and munition available.
- At the airport you can set when your fighters should defend your realm. This can be useful in case you are planning to make an attack soon but don't want your fighters to get destroyed by enemy attacks and want to rely only on your SAMs for defense.
- You can research more efficient units as well as munition types once you build a research center 3
- You can also research defensive technologies which will make it more costly for enemies to deal damage to you should they get past your defenses. These technologies also require a research center 3.
2.Airforce Missions:
- Each mission consists of attackers fighters and bombers or helicopters (depending on the mission) fighting against defenders SAMs and fighters. If the bombers or helicopters defeat the enemy SAMs and have some power remaining, they continue to attack the mission target. Fighters on both sides always first try to destroy enemy fighters and if the defending fighters have any remaining power, they will attack the attacking bombers or helicopters (attacking fighters are unable to shoot at defending SAMs). Similarly if defending SAMs have enough power remaining after engaging the attacking bombers or helicopters, they will shoot at the attacking fighters.
- On average, each unit will fire 1 piece of munition per battle. The power of a unit as well as the power of the munition used against it will determine how many units get destroyed
- Helicopters are used for the following missions: Attack enemy attack and defense soldiers and their weapons; Attack the enemy airforce and destroy landed aircraft and hangars
- Bombers are used for the following missions: Atack the enemy airforce and destroy landed aircraft and hangars; Attack enemy training facilities, weapon, aircraft, SAM and munition factories; Attack enemy income production
- Any player can lose at most 20% of training facilities, weapon, aircraft, SAM and munition factories every 3 days
- Any player cannot have their income reduced by more than 30% at any time
- To allow everyone to build up an airforce, these missions will unlock automatically on 1st February 2013
3.Research has received several updates: - Several new technologies (airforce, protection against airforce, work conditions related, faster healing of wounded) which require the construction of Research centers 2 & 3 (and in some cases other buildings).
- Certain expensive upgrades (attack/defense weapons, spy/assassin skill, etc.) now allow you to slowly pay in smaller amounts instead of needing to have the full amount of kuwal to make a complete payment.
4.CONSTRUCTION system remade: - Many new buildings added (each has an individual function)
- Those who had paid the 1 Trillion cost of the old construction yard 3 have their Kuwal reimbursed (the loss in kuwal value is considered the benefit they received for having those personal bonus points sooner)
- Construction yards now give 2 personal bonus points per level (used to be +3/+3/+4), in total it's still 10
- You can now order several buildings to be constructed in a queue
- You can cancel buildings which you have ordered if they aren't completed yet. However you can only cancel non-unique buildings, the type of which you build many (training facilities, weapon factories, etc.), within one hour of ordering.
- If you order a building to be built, you can also immediately order buildings that would normally need the first building to be finished first.
- You can change the order of buildings to be constructed after you start building them anytime, as long as you dont try to make illegal changes (like starting construction yard 5 before construction yard 4 is finished, however you CAN ORDER construction yard 5 before construction yeard 4 is finished, you just cannot place the construction yard 5 in the first position of your construction queue in this situation).
- You can instantly finish a building by paying some gold, 1 turn of construction equals 2 Gold for unique buildings (construction yards, research center, etc.) and 4 Gold for non-unique buildings (training facilities, weapon factories, etc.). However there is a limit of 900 Gold you can spend for non-unique buildings at any time, this limit recovers by 3 Gold per day until it reaches 900 Gold again.
- You receive a notification once a construction is finished
5.Members of an alliance receive a notice if a message is written in the alliance messagebox by a normal member (used to be limited to messages from the leadership only)
6.Creating an alliance requires the foreign ministry building to be constructed first. You do not need to own it to take over as the leader of an existing alliance.
7.A players defense strategy will automatically reset back to normal if they weren't assaulted in the last 30 minutes.
8.If the weapon upkeep of a player is too high and their turn income becomes negative, they pay any missing amount from their bank. Should their bank become empty, they will automatically start selling off weapons both to reduce weapon upkeep and to cover for this debt.
9.You can now receive the colorful name bonus for Gold directly (used to be available only if you received the VIP package)
10.You can now blacklist players from sending you any personal messages ingame, you can access the blacklist through your inbox where you can then add or remove players from this list. For practical reasons, messages from commanders to their officers or from alliance leadership to alliance members will not be blocked by the blacklist. (If you try to write a message to a blacklisted person, you will see a corresponding notice that the target player has blacklisted you)
11.Support for languages offered, can be changed in account settings (though none of the languages is fully translated yet, you'll only notice the parts that are translated. Untranslated parts will always show up in english). If you wish to help translate aderanwars into another language, please contact admin for details.
12.Mission reports have now one primary page where all missions (except spy logs) done by and against you are summarized in one list. From there you can access the other mission lists and details like they existed before. Commanders and Alliance leaders can also see officer/alliance member logs in this way.
13.When listing the members of an alliance on the battlefield page, the players who are on vacation now show up on the bottom of the page instead of at the top. The same applies to listing players on the relations page.
14.Logging in does not require both username and email address anymore. You can login with either alone, however as a security precaution, login by username is disabled by default, this can be changed in your account settings.

REWORKS:
15.Trading system (PTR) redone:
- There is no more "Green" or "Red" ratio. Every player has a set limit on receiving and sending resources without receiving anything in return.
- Once this limit is reached, they cannot do any one sided trades anymore until their limit recovers or they do something to fix it (If a player has a limit of sending 5,000 Turns and they reach it, then they can only make trades where they send and receive the same value of resources or they have other players send them some resources back to restore their send limit)
- As before you can send 20% of the value of what your account produces per day. These values get added up each day. So if your production is worth 300 Attack turns in total (send limit would be therefore 60 Turns per day), then each week you could send away 420 Attack turns worth of resources to other players
- You need to login actively for your send and receive limits to keep increasing
- To prevent large players from benefiting too much from their already high production, their receive limit is capped at 1.5 times the average production (basically it means that their send limit will increase faster than their receive limit whereas under normal circumstances a player would have equal send and receive limits)
- Every account starts with a one time reserve of 10,000 Turns on receiving resources. This reserve is used automatically if you cannot normally receive any further resources.
- If you have officers and pay them too much or too little, and dont make use of the tradebroker to correct these payment ratios, then your send/receive limit will get adjusted at regular intervals to reflect the resources transferred this way.
16.Work Conditions have been reworked and some new features added:
- You now gain and lose 5 motivation per turn when on relaxed/overtime (used to be +15/-20 per turn)
- To keep the recovery rate of kuwal the same as before the update, you still produce 30% less income when on Relaxed and produce 15% more income when on overtime (used to be -30%/+20%)
- 1 Supply per turn when on overtime has remained unchanged
- Once appropriate technologies are researched, going on overtime allows you to build non-unique buildings, weapons, airforce and train units faster as well as automatically banking a small portion of your income (overall resulting in the extra income you produce while on overtime to go into your bank directly)
- In the research page, you can upgrade your maximum motivation, % of income increase, faster production of weapons/training of units and % of income banked while on overtime
17.Weapon market now groups all weapons of one type, if they have the same price, into one offer.
18.The layout of the interface to change officer rates has been changed a bit. Available functions have remained unchanged
19.Layout of income details page modified to reflect updates (mainly Work Conditions and Airforce bombardment of income production)
20.Layout of strike missions page remade to make it easier for new players to easily understand what each mission does
21.Construction page now has full support for image and non-image layout
22.Spy report page has been updated to include all the recent additions as well as full support for image and non-image layout
23.Modified layout of buttons on the player stats page for missions, sending messages, trading, relations, etc.
24.Commanders and Alliance leaders can now also see the mission details of their officers/alliance members
25.Trade center page layout improved significantly
26.The option to receive name changes from the trade center has been removed
27.The list of trades on the private trading (tradebroker) page is now divided into pages by default (speeds up loading time when there were hundreds of trades) with an option to display all trades on one page.
28.Changed the Captcha on login, if anyone encounters any issues or has some feedback, dont hesitate to contact admin.

BALANCING:
29.Weapon research has been split into separate attack and defense weapons research, each had its cost halved (researching attack + defense costs exactly as much as it did before the update).
30.Daning now has 40% off research on attack weapons (used to be 20% on weapons which included both attack and defense weapons)
31.Miraya now has 40% off research on defense weapons (used to be 20% on weapons which included both attack and defense weapons)
32.Realm alert change cost is now 1 ST/AT per increased level (Max of 4 ST/AT if going from normal to critical). Reducing realm alert is free.
33.Attack Turn production does not stop at 6,000 anymore. As long as you actively log in, you will produce AT.
34.Covert Turn cap raised to 100
35.Donation limit recovery has been reduced
36.Market Trades cap raised to 25 from 16 (production is still 16 MT's per week)
37.Gold received upon login is now not reset to 1 anymore if you miss out to login for a day. It is reduced by the amount of days you did not login for. On the other hand, going on protection will reduce your login gold if you miss out some days (this used not to be the case)
38.Officer ratios, if kept too long at a non-acceptable value will now automatically simulate a transfer of resources to or from the commander (with a corresponding change in the transfer limits of both players). Both players can reverse this change in their transfer limits if they create a broker with the corresponding missing payment that is displayed in the officer details page.
39.The starting bank size for all players has been increased to be equal to 100 Gold worth of kuwal (around 70 Billion currently) and is a flat value added on top of the bank size of every player and not affected by bank capacity increases (used to be 50 Million and increased by bank capacity increases of each player).
40.Reversing weapon/airforce production and unit training orders can now be done up to 10 minutes after the order is placed (used to be 5 minutes).
41.Recent events list will remain for up to 7 days (used to delete after 1 day)

BUGFIXES:
42.Armysize of players who requested/are invited to join an alliance will not be shown on the alliance page anymore if their covert is too high, just like on any other battlefield/stats page.
43.Search function on the relations page now works properly with all relations. Used to only search through players who you set to war.

For me
1&2. I asked questions via PM and was never responded to so I ask them here now. Please give a detailed explanation of how a battle looks between 2 players. The first example should be the attack at level 5 and the defender at level 1. The second with both attacker and defender at level 3, and the last with attacker at level 1 and the defender at level 5. Both player with identical amount of units

Curumo stated before he left the game he was able to wipe out the rank 1 test account using AF with about 3K AT if I remember correctly and said it was far to easy to use AF to annihilate an account. In my experience it was more the opposite and what I found so frustrating was If facing a large force there was a lot of losses to both sides, but if my large force was facing a small force it took for ever to kill it because the losses were tiny. My extra units/power added nothing in the losses category. To clarify I am not wanting my extra men or power to translate to additional losses for my opponent, what I want is for losses to be based on the losses of the larger force, not the smaller force. It burns far to many AT and ST and it was impossible to ever kill a AF defense. It got to the point were I no longer even killed SAM units anymore. Burning the AT and ST required per attack and only destroying 3 to 5 SAM missiles is a joke.

3. Still wondering about refunding bank capacity increases since they are virtually useless now past a certain extent.

4. Will the 900 gold limit use be displayed somewhere so a person will know where they stand? Would have been nice to know this BEFORE the update was released instead of after the fact. Would have most definitely changed the way I used my gold, but whats done is done. Would be nice if you reset everyone since you didn't bother to post this till after everyone was pretty much done spending gold to build buildings and burning up a limit they didn't even know they had. ***EDIT*** I see the limit is displayed in the construction page, and no gold spent building buildings has been taken away from the limit.

6. Will this result in the removal of the dead alliances in the game? with 7 pages of dead alliances now and less then a dozen real alliances I hope it does. I personally feel it should be required to run an alliance. Say you get a message saying you have 72 hrs to build one or you will be removed as alliance leader. Then it would go to the highest ranked with a foreign ministry built, or the highest ranked with the 72 Hr notice. If no one response the alliance dies.

10. Thank You.

13. Thank You.

15. Overall feel this system is 100% better then the old, and how it should have been. I sincerely wish this system had been in place since day 1. The few questions I do have are
a)What do you call "logging in actively". Is that 1 time a day, 1 time every 3 days, 1 time a week, 3 times in a day day period? What? Since it effects our accounts we should know, and will protection times effect this as well?
b) As in the other thread, the officer commander thing needs better explained. We went to what was needed, and that is a hard cap system, so why did we not hard cap the officer/commander thing? If not hard cap it then give both the officer and the commander some visual information as to where the allowed/illegal point is. As suggested in the other thread use the present area of "suggested officer pay XXX,XXX" by adding a side note of "+/- XXX,XXX" to signify the legal limits. No one wants the game automatically sending away or receiving funds your not expecting when your not expecting them. Looking at my officer screen it looks like I will be seeing about a half a trill heading my way fairly quickly?
c) I still feel you are piling to many negatives on accounts who have chosen to actually grow over those who sell off their size to produce accounts with much better core stats. Many more kicks in the teeth to growth based accounts may see the Average Army Sizes plummet because of the stacks of negatives leveled at larger accounts. Other then a large war chest, there is now no reason to grow over sell off size to increase core stats. Bank capacity is no longer an issue, Income is generally lower for larger accounts then those much smaller then themselves due to needing a bigger defense and much higher weapons upkeep and getting to keep a much smaller portion of their own personal income. When will enough be enough with this?
d) I do not understand the need for additional caps aimed only at the largest, but I also do not see the big picture either. 1.5 times means nothing to me when I do not know what the ratios even look like in reality. Can people not hampered by this see 2, 3, or 5 times the amount? and if so why? I am not arguing against this as i simply do not understand it, so any insight or real numbers that can be compared would be appreciated.
e) Lastly a little advance notice would have been nice, and should have been given. I had UU loaned out, and its an amount that would have kept my in the "green" by the old system. Yet now I can not get them back under this new system. Something as profound and as big a game changer as this should not be thrown in with no warning and explained days later, so that part is an epic fail in the management of the game. I am willing to accept my losses because I do like this new system far better then the old one, its just very frustrating how things are done now.

20. Why were the losses from the attackers standpoint left off the descriptions? The hunt assassin tool tip stats what you kill but not what you lose. I think these new descriptions are great, they just all need to contain all the information.

26. May I ask Why? Only ask thinking of those who might sell in the future. Since account absorption has more or less been killed, it will be more about taking over standing accounts.

33. Again, please define "actively log in". I am glad to see it is not open ended.

35. Reduced to what?

38. see above mentioned issues with commander officer relationship.

41. I would much rather see 3 days max, 7 days is not recent events. If the 7 days stands can we atleast make it so we can delete individual events? I would love to use it as a reminder I got a message and read it at work, but can't respond till i get home, but with 20 events per day for 7 days, that's just a jumbled up garbage pile. JMO

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Re: january 1, 2013 updates discussion thread.

Post by Steveanaya on Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:27 pm

1&2-an explanation to how much % each mission can destroy and at what cost would be appreciated. How are we supposed to know how much to build if we don't know how the missions work?

15-This one completely screwed me over. I had just worked out a deal for 100$$ for a ton of UU but now I can't sell them because I was given an account with a bad Ptr to start. I grew 120m army size and it barely changed. So I'm not very happy about this.

16-How muchfaster do things get produced while on overtime? Is it the % we see on the research page? Is that # rounded? I still have no clue how much I am training every turn while on overtime but it looks like a nice rounded number. Do we not get a bonus to UP on overtime?

33-36-THANKS
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Re: january 1, 2013 updates discussion thread.

Post by Kenzu on Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:59 pm

@Special Agent 47
I could reply to your points if you are interested. Are you interested?

Steveanaya wrote:1&2-an explanation to how much % each mission can destroy and at what cost would be appreciated. How are we supposed to know how much to build if we don't know how the missions work?

15-This one completely screwed me over. I had just worked out a deal for 100$$ for a ton of UU but now I can't sell them because I was given an account with a bad Ptr to start. I grew 120m army size and it barely changed. So I'm not very happy about this.

16-How muchfaster do things get produced while on overtime? Is it the % we see on the research page? Is that # rounded? I still have no clue how much I am training every turn while on overtime but it looks like a nice rounded number. Do we not get a bonus to UP on overtime?

33-36-THANKS

1&2 Airforce and Airforce missions.
Basics:
Each unit needs 10 munition and uses 1 piece of munition per unit.
One missile/bomb of the same level as the unit costs one tenth of the units price.

This means that if you spend say 50 billion kuwal on units, you will have to spend another 50 billion on munition to have your units fully armed.
This means you invested 100 billion kuwal and when you go on a mission, you will use munition worth 5 billion kuwal (10% of your munition).
This means that you should be able to destroy about 5 billion of kuwal value if technology of the enemy is the same.

For each 1 level advantage your units will be about 10% more efficient at killing the enemy.

At the same time the enemy will fight back using their own munition to counter your units. If they have same value of the same technology of appropriate units to counter you (for example SAMs with SAM missiles), then they will also spend 5 billion kuwal of missiles to destroy 5 billion of your units.

So in general I would say that with each mission you will destroy a value of roughly 5% of your forces and they destroy your units worth roughly 5% of their forces.

Basically the more you invest in your airforce, the more you can destroy per mission and you should expect to destroy at least 5% of the value you invested in your airforce, given that your airforce has something to destroy. Once a player is crushed and has nothing left, you obviously wont destroy anything.

If you dont know how much to build, you might want to ask yourself how much you want to invest into airforce instead of asking yourself how many units to build. Before you make the decision, it won't be a bad idea to first find out how much have you invested into land forces. I find it largely depends on personal preference. The test server gave me personally a neat idea of what and how much of it to build myself.

15 Contact admin about this and tell him the details.

16 Yes, you can see it on the research page if you built the appropriate research center.
The construction speed is rounded down as far as I know.
Example: 90 SAM factories +11% on overtime = 99.9 per turn = 99 actual amount per turn on overtime

33.Attack Turn production does not stop at 6,000 anymore. As long as you actively log in, you will produce AT.
It means that you will keep producing AT as long as you play. If you miss out logging in on a certain day, you will still produce AT, but if you dont log in X days in a row, you will stop producing them.
I personally dont know if it's 7 days, 14 days or 30 days, but I believe it is somewhere between 7-30 days in a row that you must miss out for the AT production stop to kick in.

34.Covert Turn cap raised to 100
What's the question?

35.Donation limit recovery has been reduced
Recovers by 5$ per day. Previously 10$ per day.

36.Market Trades cap raised to 25 from 16 (production is still 16 MT's per week)
This means that you produce MT until you have 25 of them. Previously you could have only a maximum of 15 MT.
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Re: january 1, 2013 updates discussion thread.

Post by Special Agent 47 on Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:17 pm

Kenzu wrote:@Special Agent 47
I could reply to your points if you are interested. Are you interested?

Sure, that will be fine. All I ask is, if your not sure of the answer your about to give, please ask Martin before you post to not cause any unnecessary confusion. As for your responses to Steveanaya, when he said
33-36-THANKS
I think he was simply showing appreciation for those updates. Saying Thank You for updates he really liked. I do not think he did not understand them or had questions.

As for your explanation on #33, when you reply to my issues would you please take the time to ask Martin what the X number of days is?


As for your explanation for 1&2, while forces are equal I have found what you said to be fairly accurate. Unfortunately, and why I asked for the 3 examples, when your very different in levels and very different in size the 5% is totally off base. It also appears the losses for both sides are based on the defenders army size, ignoring the attackers. So no matter your size, to completely take out another becomes very costly in AT and ST because the losses drop to just a few units and even to the point that no units are destroyed, just a few munitions. So help me understand the system as best you can by providing the examples requested if at all possible.
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Re: january 1, 2013 updates discussion thread.

Post by Admin on Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:37 pm

Took quite a while to type up

1&2) what kenzu said except/also
- The limit on destroying actually would be more accurate to say "value of UP TO roughly 5%". In the poll people almost unanimously rejected the idea of destroying a force with one hit (which killing X% of your power does equal to). So it is capped at 10% of each force.
- Cap on destroying actual targets (factories, attack/defense, landed airforce) is 5% of existing target per mission, for now to be comparable to sabotage, strike and assassination missions
- I'll point out, again (since it's mentioned in the updates page already), that you do not need to completely wipe out SAMs anymore and ALL REMAINING power goes against your target
- I will never engage in discussions about zeroing stats again, if that's what you mean by "completely take out", if not then explain what you mean by it.

It's a shame people don't use the wiki

3) I've repeatedly, since 1st January, said that it'll happen. Obviously bug fixes and other issues have a higher priority.
That as well as that any reserves returned will almost definitely not be given out instantly even once the option is made available.
For me, the update process isn't finished yet.

4) Wow, I don't even want to imagine how much people would cry if the situation were reversed and 3 days after release the gold cost, having started out as 4 Gold per Turn of construction, getting halved to 2 with the limit imposed.
First question would then definitely be: "Would be nice if you tell us when we are getting our gold back?"
Would be nice if you didn't start your sentences with "would be nice" about stuff that you didn't even clarify first. See last paragraph of point 15.

6) For now, no. Maybe mid-february/early march realistically

15)
@ SA
a) "logging in actively" depends on how active you are
If you always only login on exactly every second day, it'll only count as half the production. On the other hand if you login every workday and don't bother on the weekend, you'll get counted full production and all AT's. If you are fully active for several weeks but then decide to take a 2 week vacation, you'll still get counted everything but if you come back you will need to start logging in regularly again to build up your reserve. Protections are irrelevant to this consideration.
b) if by legal limits you mean what's allowed, there are none. you can do whatever you want. If by limits you mean how much you can pay without having those fake brokers, then it already gets presented by the suggested rate which shows you the 75% rate and I will consider redesigning it to show the min max if it is possible
all current ratios are already balanced because I needed them to get valued while everyone was under the PTR system. all that's coming for you is at most the additional inequality that you racked up in the last week, but a trillion is unlikely
c) "When will enough be enough with this?" Once you start understanding basic maths. I have explained these things from every conceivable point of view if you still wish to believe your fairy tales of "smaller accounts have bigger incomes", "personal income bonus gets reduced by AE", etc. which I have invested great effort in repeatedly disproving both mathematically and with numerous examples. Consequently what you said in your paragraph makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever.
d) Point is mainly to avoid large accounts >300 mil armysize to gather even more population faster than anyone else at an uncatchable rate because they already have the highest incomes of all by being the largest. allowing them to receive even more resources than anyone else would not sit well.
"Can people not hampered by this see 2, 3, or 5 times the amount? and if so why?"
I do not understand your question. What amount are you talking about, I might be able to reply after you clarify this.
e) @ SA/steveanaya
"so that part is an epic fail in the management of the game": calling it an epic fail would be correct if it had not been considered or had been considered but then after release and after "causing of damage" reversing that decision. For more information continue reading well as see the "would be nice" part in 4).
It is clear that some people have tried to abuse the last system using various methods and, because of the way the trading worked before, I could not and did not want to announce this beforehand because of the things that would have been done by this group of people.
Yes, I could then go through all the logs and backtrack every trade, both on galactic as well as private markets, in anticipation of this update. But why should I create problems for myself this way. It's much easier to solve the few special cases when they are pointed out to me rather than actually cause people to create even more of them, which means I have to spend a lot more time to reverse these also.
However everyone likes to ignore all that and will rather whine instead how some update was unfair, only because that's how they usually have to do it on most other forums and even around the world to get any response, and this repetitive behavior annoys me the most after all this time.
I have always been as forthcoming as possible and tried to be fair each time while at the same time trying to balance player decisions done long time ago with those done recently as well as dealing with a perpetually UnpleasableFanbase. As well as frigging repeating countless times that if you have a special situation or are unclear about possible course of action after some updates you can present your case and I. I have not once said that I would not hear someone out.
That being said, thank you for reminding me that people will whine/stop playing instead of actually seeking help so I'll be adding this into the news page.

16) the numbers on base, income details, training, armory, airport and construction are always adjusted properly if you are on overtime/relaxed

20) people get confused when they see many numbers

26) cleaning up of the trade center page primarily, i think in 6 months it had been used once or twice
you can get colorful name for gold (i would consider adding a single name change feature though)

33) see 15

38) see 15 b)

41) you can always clean the list, or copy paste it somewhere and then delete it

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3) Being condescending to some people helps me keep my sanity when I am forced to interact with them.

I hate PR, will never engage in it and will rain destruction on all who refuse to use their brains to think before they speak.
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Re: january 1, 2013 updates discussion thread.

Post by Special Agent 47 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:50 pm

Admin wrote:Took quite a while to type up
We thank you.

1&2) what kenzu said except/also
- The limit on destroying actually would be more accurate to say "value of UP TO roughly 5%". In the poll people almost unanimously rejected the idea of destroying a force with one hit (which killing X% of your power does equal to). So it is capped at 10% of each force.
- Cap on destroying actual targets (factories, attack/defense, landed airforce) is 5% of existing target per mission, for now to be comparable to sabotage, strike and assassination missions
- I'll point out, again (since it's mentioned in the updates page already), that you do not need to completely wipe out SAMs anymore and ALL REMAINING power goes against your target
- I will never engage in discussions about zeroing stats again, if that's what you mean by "completely take out", if not then explain what you mean by it.
Yes that is what I meant, and OK on the conversation part.

It's a shame people don't use the wiki
I agree


3) I've repeatedly, since 1st January, said that it'll happen. Obviously bug fixes and other issues have a higher priority.
That as well as that any reserves returned will almost definitely not be given out instantly even once the option is made available.
For me, the update process isn't finished yet.
While I do agree with you Admin, I think you should have a bit more understanding in this area. Considering it has been a year since it was announced and about 3 months since you were last seen. Not to mention at one point you hinted a 2 week notice would be given, yet none was. Its water under the bridge now and lets all just move on from both sides. The game is better off.

@ Steveanaya,,,
We could never find a way to explain the phenomenon to Martin. You can double or triple an accounts population and still not move its PTR much if there has been a large amount of value placed in its core stats and if a high value in its killed category exists its even worse. I think this new system is going to be much better but those of us with bad PTR will continue to be dogged. I truly wish this system had be discovered by game launch. I think it would be phenomenal in a game from launch.


4) Wow, I don't even want to imagine how much people would cry if the situation were reversed and 3 days after release the gold cost, having started out as 4 Gold per Turn of construction, getting halved to 2 with the limit imposed.
First question would then definitely be: "Would be nice if you tell us when we are getting our gold back?"
Would be nice if you didn't start your sentences with "would be nice" about stuff that you didn't even clarify first. See last paragraph of point 15.
I don't fully understand, but I get its a reprimand for blowing up and I agree. I did edit in the correction tho, but I agree with your testy tone.

6) For now, no. Maybe mid-february/early march realistically
Thank you, do what you feel is most important, I just wondered IF it was going to happen eventually. It's not effecting the game other then cosmetically so definitely back burner stuff.

15)
@ SA
a) "logging in actively" depends on how active you are
If you always only login on exactly every second day, it'll only count as half the production. On the other hand if you login every workday and don't bother on the weekend, you'll get counted full production and all AT's. If you are fully active for several weeks but then decide to take a 2 week vacation, you'll still get counted everything but if you come back you will need to start logging in regularly again to build up your reserve. Protections are irrelevant to this consideration.
That is an excellent piece of code and I thank you for it.
b) if by legal limits you mean what's allowed, there are none. you can do whatever you want. If by limits you mean how much you can pay without having those fake brokers, then it already gets presented by the suggested rate which shows you the 75% rate and I will consider redesigning it to show the min max if it is possible
Yes, what I was wanting to know is what is the max/min I can pay and not have to see these fake brokers.(what is the correct name for them BTW?) After thinking on this the last few days I think it may be impossible to do. Where you may or may not be able to show me what 20% +/- looks like on my account, that amount will be far different on my officers accounts. The +/- for a 100 mill army size officer may be vastly different then a 20 mill army size officer. If you have time and inclination I would love to see you try it, but I also no see that it may be impossible to actually do and I am fine with that.


all current ratios are already balanced because I needed them to get valued while everyone was under the PTR system. all that's coming for you is at most the additional inequality that you racked up in the last week, but a trillion is unlikely
I just got that number from my officer page is all. That's a rough estimate at what my officers page stated I had overpaid them all. This is going to be a difficult question to ask, because I do not know how to say it but,,,,,,,IF a person had 2 officers in the past, and those 2 officers sent a large amount of resources VIA an officer/commander trade, then the commander paid them an extremely high pay in hopes of off setting the inequality over time, would all of that be taken care of now, and would the officers be able to be cut free with no negative effects? I hope that made sense.

c) "When will enough be enough with this?" Once you start understanding basic maths. I have explained these things from every conceivable point of view if you still wish to believe your fairy tales of "smaller accounts have bigger incomes", "personal income bonus gets reduced by AE", etc. which I have invested great effort in repeatedly disproving both mathematically and with numerous examples. Consequently what you said in your paragraph makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever.
I thought we had agreed to disagree. I thought that I had explained it to you in a way you could understand. Either way I do not want to argue the point anymore. I know I am right in what I say. You know you are right in what you say. All I can possibly ever remotely add to the convo is simply this,,,,,,,Do 2 query's ingame. The first is to put accounts in order of size from largest to smallest. The second to list accounts by income from largest to smallest. You will see 100% for sure that the 2 lists are not the same. This will prove just because you are bigger does not mean you will have a bigger income. This is due to officer and commander pay. Weapons upkeep. Merc count, and a few more I think. Yes they are all Player controlled. Yes if all accounts where build identically in % of each unit, and all weapons were the same, and all weapons counts were the same, then income would be dependent on size. I accept the arguement will go no where and I am fine with that. Lets just move on.

d) Point is mainly to avoid large accounts >300 mil armysize to gather even more population faster than anyone else at an uncatchable rate because they already have the highest incomes of all by being the largest. allowing them to receive even more resources than anyone else would not sit well.
OK, I get this. It just seems to me that since you have already cut their growth by raising costs, and you have already cut their incomes, some to a level far below those much smaller, then it just seems limit on top of limit, on top of limit. It may not be that bad. IDK. I will have to see it in operation. Yes my comment may be completely misguided and off base, but I think it is valid when you look at it from the point of a player not privy to the information you have as a game admin, and generally do not share with the playerbase.

"Can people not hampered by this see 2, 3, or 5 times the amount? and if so why?"
I do not understand your question. What amount are you talking about, I might be able to reply after you clarify this.
This is because I do not understand the limits and how they work. All I can gather is that a 300 mill army size and up is capped at 1.5 times or % of their production. Mt question is "IF" (this is a random picked number), if a 300 mill army size player has a cap of 10,000 AT value in resources, is it possible for a 200 mill players to be able to gather 20,000 AT value worth of resources? That would be double what the 300 mill army size player can gain. Can they gain 30,000 At value or 3 times the value the 300 mill army size player can gain? That was the question I was trying to ask, but I do not know the proper way. I also realize this information may not even exist yet. It may take time to balance and may need tweaked, then again it may be perfect from the start. IDK, I do not have access to the info you do so all I can do is ask.

e) @ SA/steveanaya
"so that part is an epic fail in the management of the game": calling it an epic fail would be correct if it had not been considered or had been considered but then after release and after "causing of damage" reversing that decision. For more information continue reading well as see the "would be nice" part in 4).
I must admit I am lost on this part.
It is clear that some people have tried to abuse the last system using various methods and, because of the way the trading worked before, I could not and did not want to announce this beforehand because of the things that would have been done by this group of people.
Yes, I could then go through all the logs and backtrack every trade, both on galactic as well as private markets, in anticipation of this update. But why should I create problems for myself this way. It's much easier to solve the few special cases when they are pointed out to me rather than actually cause people to create even more of them, which means I have to spend a lot more time to reverse these also.
However everyone likes to ignore all that and will rather whine instead how some update was unfair, only because that's how they usually have to do it on most other forums and even around the world to get any response, and this repetitive behavior annoys me the most after all this time.
The thing is no one but you knew these things. So how can you expect an different a reaction when you do not bother to tell anyone? It escapes me how because you know something, you think we do? and how when you know something but tell no one until after they complain you get pissed because they complained to begin with? I just honestly do not get it.
I have always been as forthcoming as possible and tried to be fair each time while at the same time trying to balance player decisions done long time ago with those done recently as well as dealing with a perpetually UnpleasableFanbase. As well as frigging repeating countless times that if you have a special situation or are unclear about possible course of action after some updates you can present your case and I. I have not once said that I would not hear someone out.
I see that is a link now, so I'll go read it in a bit, to far into this post to lose it now. Again. Try to see things from a players perspective. Try stepping out of your Admin role for just one second. This update created hard limits. Why would any player automatically think you would then bypass this new system just for them? Nothing was offered in the details that were give well after the update was launched, so please explain why you would think a player would come to the same conclusions you as admin would come to when you know things we would not? Now YES I fully agree with your line of thinking. Try ASKING Admin about something before COMPLAINING in open forums. Yes I agree. Even tho I have yet to hear from PM's sent to you on Nov 12th, and you appeared completely inactive until these updates were installed. But really, that's all you have to say. Just ask before complaining. In that I agree with you and admit I often full on complain before asking.

That being said, thank you for reminding me that people will whine/stop playing instead of actually seeking help so I'll be adding this into the news page.
Your welcome I guess, not really sure about this one. You should understand we get frustrated the same as you. Often our "whining" and complaining are our,,,, well let me say MY way of asking. I can not speak for others. That said I will diligently attempt to change my approach from now on.

16) the numbers on base, income details, training, armory, airport and construction are always adjusted properly if you are on overtime/relaxed

20) people get confused when they see many numbers
I respectfully disagree with this one. I agree in general that yes people get confused when to many numbers are displayed. The reason I disagree with this specific point is people will want to know and will keep asking over and over as new people come in. Heck I am willing to bet 50% of the active player base can not tell you the correct % losses for each attack method simply because it is not posted, and there is so much incorrect information out there. I am not asking for it to be changed. I am just expressing my feelings on the matter. I am fine with what you decided.

26) cleaning up of the trade center page primarily, i think in 6 months it had been used once or twice
you can get colorful name for gold (i would consider adding a single name change feature though)
I do think adding a "buy name change" option would be a perfect solution.

33) see 15
Again, a fine piece of work with that one. I do not think it could have been done any better.

38) see 15 b)

41) you can always clean the list, or copy paste it somewhere and then delete it
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