Another one bites the dust

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Another one bites the dust

Post by J1nx on Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:56 am

Seems like TMI has gotten bored again...

Some info first:
I farmed a TMI member whom was sitting on too much kuwal at the time
[12 Aug] 07:16 Jookaremo 106,405,959,828 Kuwal Stolen 10 6500 54934 205,159,500,000 113,207,201,513
Some calculations:
Defender lost 55k units
Armoury
80% 864,000 weapons
38,016kk
20% 522,000 weapons
5,742kk
Total = 43,758kk
Training
55k*150k=8,250kk
UU
1 Untrained = 429,336 Kuwal (market price)
55k*429,336=23,613kk

Lost Total = 75,621kk
According to KingKongFan1 in an in-game msg:
"J1nx needed - 170,423,850,000 (the amount needed for the hit to be legit)" <-- where they get this figure I have no idea and that figure (or whatever policy that goes with it) is just plain ridiculous and is the reason why this game is on the decline.
According to the game standard a farming hit is profitable if its greater than (150*defender's army size)
Profit needed (150*Jookaremo's army size)
(150*136kk)=20,400kk
My profit = 106,405kk - 75,621kk = 30,784kk

KingKongFan1:
"anyway compensation in the amount of 149,853,547,776 kuwal is due Jookaremo.

our policy states we have to give you 72 hrs. to pay compensation before any action can be taken. the clock starts at 13 Aug 21:45:00 gametime."

In summary:
TMI obviously wants me out the way. I can understand they are bored and want some sport.
I'v grown tired of this game anyways and I made it clear both in my MOTD and in a reply to KingKongFan1 that any action taken to reduce my stats will be met with me PERMANENTLY returning the action.
So whats going to happen is this:
TMI is going to wait until 16 Aug 21:45:00 gametime and then they are going to mass me.
I am going to let them.
I will make a few attacks of my own.
Once they have wasted enough resources on me I will go into protection, rebuild whatever strike I can, and pick a target (except for the few that I respect - they know who they are)...
This will continue indefinitely because a) I have a continuous source of market trades, income and unit production, b) Im a very patient individual and I always repay my debts.
So in a sense this is my retirement announcement from the conventional game.
The reasoning behind all of this is ridiculous but it is what it is.

J1nx
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Re: Another one bites the dust

Post by Keinutnai on Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:45 am

With a population of 136,000,000
Your profit must be 136,000,000 * 150 = 20,400,000,000

If your profit was 30,784,000,000, then your hit is legit.

TMI, please explain why you ask compensation for a legal hit?

He will obviously not pay if he believes the hit was legit. Why don't you use diplomacy to solve the dispute?

PS: The defenders losses are irrelevant in profit calculation. You calculate your profit by taking kuwal stolen - attackers losses (units, training costs and weapons)

Your losses are 60.5 billion if you used mobile artilleries
79.3 billion if you used MLRS

At current UU prices of 429,336 kuwal
with mobile artilleries your hit is legit if you steal 91.3 billion kuwal
and if you used MLRS, then your hit is legit if you steal 110.1 billion

The 170.4 billion is nonsense.

@J1nx
I suggest how they came up with that number and why the legal amount is not 110.1 billion. And also I suggest you tell them that you cannot pay them if you don't know how they calculated the amount. And I suggest you also ask for more time

@TMI
I suggest to you, that you use diplomacy to solve this issue. I'd also like to know myself how you came up with such a high figure.

If you mass J1nx without trying to solve this issue through diplomacy, then the massing is obviously made out of boredom and not because of some farming policy.

Why is this behaviour not surprising me... Neutral

Then again it would be the first time TMI turns on a former TMI member.
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Re: Another one bites the dust

Post by seaborgium on Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:45 pm

kenuz keep your nose in your own crap
The only thing we do out of boredom is to screw with you.

J1nx I am looking into it.
from the quick look I took at it, it looks like a missed number.

the timers on hold for now.

I will double check it again.

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Re: Another one bites the dust

Post by seaborgium on Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:53 pm

Just bc I am lazy and really don't feel like breaking it allllll the way out.

j1nx losses 54934 * (864000+150000+429336) = 79,288,219,824
j1nx needed 136m*150 = 20.4m
so j1nx your fine
you are 7b to the positive.

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Re: Another one bites the dust

Post by kingkongfan1 on Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:31 pm

seaborgium wrote:Just bc I am lazy and really don't feel like breaking it allllll the way out.

j1nx losses 54934 * (864000+150000+429336) = 79,288,219,824
j1nx needed 136m*150 = 20.4m
so j1nx your fine
you are 7b to the positive.

It really comes down to this, I made a mistake in calculating the amount needed for the hit to be legit, plain & simple. I do not agree with Sea's calc's, but as of my recalc's the hit is indeed legal & no action is to be taken.

also in response to this comment...

J1nx wrote:where they get this figure I have no idea and that figure (or whatever policy that goes with it) is just plain ridiculous and is the reason why this game is on the decline.

for me it is less the "policies" in this game that have caused the decline, but more the current attitude of most of the players. there are few if any that I want to have a discussion with, let alone try to play this game with, because of their attitude.

J1nx wrote:

In summary:
TMI obviously wants me out the way.*
*Out of the way of what? as far as I can tell you are in no members way of doing anything.
So in a sense this is my retirement announcement from the conventional game.*
*Sorry to see you go, but I understand why you leave.
The reasoning behind all of this is ridiculous but it is what it is.*
*I agree

In the end it comes down to a mistake I made & I take full responsibility for it. nothing has been done, nothing will be done.

Keinutnai wrote:
Then again it would be the first time TMI turns on a former TMI member.

1) I have been in T.M.I since it was created. & I can honestly tell you that J1nx has "NEVER" been a member of T.M.I. so the above statement makes absolutely no sense. but with keinutnai that is nothing new.
2) you should learn keep your nose out of business that isn't yours, lest you want to get it bitten off.



Last edited by kingkongfan1 on Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:41 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : more info...)
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Re: Another one bites the dust

Post by J1nx on Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:30 pm

You were man enough to admit your mistake but dont go complaining about my attitude... whatever attitude you are getting is a direct consequence of your actions and the way this was handled.
The way that you assume you're right and that im wrong and then telling me to do what you say or else... that comes across as arrogant IMO and my direct words to you were "move on, dont waste my time" - which was said because I am very busy in RL atm and I dont have the time to calculate and argue with you, which I had to do in any case which irritates me - hence whatever attitude you are getting.
Now if I hadn't of brought this out in public then there is a good probability that you would've gone ahead with the massing and your mistake would've been mute... just something to consider next time (I say next time because this isnt the first time TMI has threatened me and going on the current trend it wont be the last time).
Regadless, lets just move on

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Re: Another one bites the dust

Post by kingkongfan1 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:28 pm

J1nx wrote:You were man enough to admit your mistake but dont go complaining about my attitude(1)... whatever attitude you are getting is a direct consequence of your actions and the way this was handled(2).
The way that you assume you're right and that im wrong and then telling me to do what you say or else... that comes across as arrogant IMO and my direct words to you were "move on, dont waste my time"(3) - which was said because I am very busy in RL atm and I dont have the time to calculate and argue with you, which I had to do in any case which irritates me - hence whatever attitude you are getting(4).
Now if I hadn't of brought this out in public then there is a good probability that you would've gone ahead with the massing and your mistake would've been mute(5)... just something to consider next time (I say next time because this isnt the first time TMI has threatened me and going on the current trend it wont be the last time).(6)
Regadless, lets just move on

1) I never claimed to be perfect, I make mistakes, & don't have a problem admitting when I do make a mistake. If you were the only player of this game with a crap attitude then I never would have said anything about attitude period, the fact that you think that this comment was aimed at you in particular is IMO very arrogant of you.
2) there are players of which kenzu/keinutnai is the most vocal, that say that diplomacy is the way to handle these situations, IMO diplomacy is the sharing of facts. my initial contact with you was a stating of facts period, I gave you no attitude, nor did I demand anything from you. see below...
**********

From: KingKongFan1
Date: [13 Aug] 09:19
Subject: Bad hit...
Message text:
With the info I have at hand now, you have made a bad hit on Jookaremo. If you dispute my findings, then by all means pm me a copy of the "Battle Report" & I'll recalc the hit. please see below.

J1nx needed - 170,423,850,000 (for the hit to be legit)
J1nx got - 106,405,959,828
J1nx damage - 74,929,976,000 (the kuwal value you lost in the hit)
J1nx "profit" - 31,475,983,828 (the amount you got in the hit after subtracting your losses)

As you can see the amount you got in the hit is far below what is needed for the hit to be legit. as such compensation in the amount of 149,853,547,776 kuwal is due Jookaremo.

If you have any questions or comments, feel free to ask.

K...
**********
When I got the "battle Report" I sent you a seperate message, again a sharing of facts, another attempt at diplomacy...
**********

From: KingKongFan1
Date: [13 Aug] 21:43
Subject: Revised Calc's...
Message text:
Sorry for the multiple messages but it is late atm & I cannot seem to hit the correct buttons. Anyway, I have gotten a copy of the "Battle Report" & have revised the calc's. unfortunately the hit is still bad, see below...

J1nx needed - 170,423,850,000 (the amount needed for the hit to be legit)
J1nx got - 106,405,959,828 (this is far less than what is needed)
J1nx damage - 65,536,262,000 (the kuwal value you lost in the hit)
J1nx "profit" - 40,869,697,828 (far less than the amount needed)

this is in comparison to my previous calc's of...

J1nx needed - 170,423,850,000 (for the hit to be legit)
J1nx got - 106,405,959,828
J1nx damage - 74,929,976,000 (the kuwal value you lost in the hit)
J1nx "profit" - 31,475,983,828 (the amount you got in the hit after subtracting your losses)

anyway compensation in the amount of 149,853,547,776 kuwal is due Jookaremo.

our policy states we have to give you 72 hrs. to pay compensation before any action can be taken. the clock starts at 13 Aug 21:45:00 gametime. hope to hear from you soon.

Any questions feel free to ask.

K...
**********
As anyone can plainly see there is no threat here, no demands, just a stating of facts. but instead of getting a message from you stating something along the lines of "I think your calc's are off/wrong", I get the following...
**********

From: J1nx
Date: [14 Aug] 01:25
Subject: no subject
Message text:
The hit was profitable, move on.
Dont waste my time.
Any attempt to decrease my stats will be met with me PERMANENTLY returning the action - read my MOTD
**********
Does this look diplomatic to anyone? IMO this response from you is very arrogant & inflammatory of you, considering the way I initially approached you with this matter.(only stating facts, not making demands). to which my response to this statement is below...
**********

From: KingKongFan1
Date: [14 Aug] 08:34
Subject: no subject
Message text:
As you wish, as long as you understand that you bring this on yourself. If Jookaremo has not received his due compensation by 16 Aug 21:45:00 then we will take the necessary action.

I urge you to reconsider this course of action.

K...
**********
Again only a stating of facts, I made no threats, demands, I had not an attitude, & with the last sentence did make another attempt at diplomacy. If you & or anyone else want to try to claim I went about this in any other manner than I did, then so be it as my conscience is clear on this.

3) For the record, unlike several other players, I never assume anything period. Also I never "told" you to do anything, I merely stated the facts as I saw them.

4) do you really think that you are the only one with RL to deal with? do you not think it irritates the hell out of me to have to send out so many "bad hit" messages because so many players cannot figure out how to make legit hits? trust me when I say that I share your irritation.

5) you are so wrong with your assumption in this statement. everyone knows I suck at math, hence forth I have 5 other members checking my figures, once the mistake was found, then orders were sent out to stand down. (this is partly the reason I gave the 72 hr limit)

6) no threats were ever made, no threats ever will be made. facts are facts, if a player makes a bad hit on any member of T.M.I. & refuses to pay compensation then that player will be massed plain & simple. I am real easy going & have worked out many deals with many players (several without SS) on paying compensation. so anyone who gets massed by T.M.I. for not paying compensation has truly brought the action on themselves & deserve what they get IMO...

@Kenzu/Keinutnai - not that I really care about your opinion, but in my minds eye I was very diplomatic in the way I handled this situation. It was J1nx attitude & remarks which made diplomacy impossible. So please make no more comments about me or how I handle diplomacy until you have the full story...

I have said all I have to say on this subject.
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Re: Another one bites the dust

Post by seaborgium on Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:37 am

We can take this up a level
I can take control of TMI, dissolve the council and do as I please.
I know a few who would at just a mere thought would mass anyone in the game if I say go.

So don't start the crap about attitudes.
I have given up on the game
So many restrictions have caused a very large gap that will never be filled.
There is 1 more factor that will never be overcome no matter how much the side argues it.

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Re: Another one bites the dust

Post by Keinutnai on Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:16 pm

@kingkongfan

The way kingkongfan handled it seems perfectly fine to me
(with the exception that he did a miscalculation, but mistakes can happen to anyone, and J1nx should have asked how kingkongfan came up with the number).
Obviously it could have been handled better, but it was good enough. The biggest problem I see here was that J1nx was escalating things too early.

The message of J1nx:
J1nx wrote:The hit was profitable, move on.
Dont waste my time.
Any attempt to decrease my stats will be met with me PERMANENTLY returning the action - read my MOTD"
I believe that J1nx posted this message as he wanted to deter TMI from massing him as he believed the hit was profitable.

And even though he is right that the hit was profitable, the decision if TMI masses someone who doesn't compensate does not depend on whether the hit is profitable, or whether the hit was illegal according to TMI policies, but it depends on whether TMI believes themselves if the hit was illegal.

The best course of action would be to explain to TMI why required amount was not 170 billion but much less, or at least he could have asked how did kingkongfan come up with the 170 billion number.

I can perfectly understand why J1nx has send the message he did. It was unfair treatment to be massed for a hit that was legal according to TMI policies, but the optimal solution would be to explain to TMI why he believes it was a legal hit and to ask for more time to solve this. Obviously the message he sent was not going to solve the issue.

Then again J1nx isn't in an alliance which would allow someone experienced in negotiations to handle this. Obviously people with a lot of experience in this matter are better at handling it.

Still, if J1nx told me what he told to you. I wouldn't end the conversation there. I would explain to him that even though the hit was profitable, it was not profitable enough to be allowed by our farming policy, and that our farming policy applies to anyone and we never make any exceptions.

So the course of action is understandable for both of them. kingkongfan handled the situation pretty well, J1nx still has a lot of room for improvement, which is normal given that he isn't alliance leader and probably didn't have to deal with diplomacy before.

I am happy that a resolution to this issue has been found in time.

Well done! Very Happy
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Re: Another one bites the dust

Post by fivel on Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:03 pm

once again kenzu cant see, the posts that ask him to stay out cause no one care about his opinion, because of the s*** covering his eyes
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Re: Another one bites the dust

Post by castravete on Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:51 pm

so people tells him to mind his own bussines and he keeps on eating...he is amazing!!!!

more than that he laks the talent of comprehending an entire post...have you all noticed that he is able to understand just a line or two maximum from an entire post?
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Re: Another one bites the dust

Post by Keinutnai on Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:02 am

@fivel and castravete,
probably it's you who can't read an entire post. If you haven't noticed kingkongfan said something to me, and I answered to him. I wasn't talking to anyone else. hence the "@"

But of course you two won't understand. All you want is to stir up trouble.
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Re: Another one bites the dust

Post by fivel on Mon Dec 23, 2013 2:54 pm

another one bites the dust

good bye J1nx: Name: deleted
{Currently under Temporary Protection}

 cyclops 
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