limited attacks released

Attack Ground Forces
5 Attack Turns / 8 Supply Turns needed

Attack Airforce with Helicopters
5 Attack Turns / 8 Supply Turns needed

Attack Airforce with Bombers
5 Attack Turns / 8 Supply Turns needed

Attack Training Facilities / Weapon Factories
5 Attack Turns / 8 Supply Turns needed

Attack Airforce Factories (SAM, Aircraft, Munition)
5 Attack Turns / 8 Supply Turns needed

Admin wrote:I'll adress some issues, if I miss some, remind me:

- Attacking airforce with helis or bombers (2 separate options) are done for 2 reasons. One is balance so whichever you build you can attack airforce. Second is practicality because all missions share one code (the parts that are identical) and it makes the system easier to understand knowing you always send only one type.

- All missions "use" fighters. Defender has the option to not defend with fighters (see options available in starport page)

- Spying will get updated, I am not sure yet how, because it would make it screwed up clogged up if it also had to display all further info like factories/hangars/airforce/munition/new techs (yes I do think factories should now become spyable so you see their production)

- Damage formula has been updated. If you use more advanced bombs, you will get a better kill ratio on your missions. 10% per level improvement, giving you up to a 150% kill rate with Gen 6 munition. (this has already applied to fights before you reached your target, but now it also applies to the target dmg itself, so Gen 3 bombs vs factories means you will have a 120% kill ratio)

- There will be 2 more techs linked to the airforce. Something like digging in and fortification. It will have 5 levels and will allow players to negate the damage bonus one can have with the higher levels of munition

- If you have tested the "attack airforce" mission you would have noticed that you only destroy hangars and aircraft. I intend to add a sabotage option to destroy munitions (100% certain). Adding an option to sabotage aircraft would make sense obviously too.

- It would also make sense to add an option to destroy airforce with your normal ground troops, but it's kinda weird since normally you would simply launch your aircraft and move them elsewhere. SAMs could be considered to get destroyed though

- There will be 2 more techs linked to the airforce. Something like digging in and fortification. It will have 5 levels and will allow players to negate the damage bonus one can have with the higher levels of munition

Manleva wrote:

Attack Ground Forces
5 Attack Turns / 8 Supply Turns needed

Attack Airforce with Helicopters
5 Attack Turns / 8 Supply Turns needed

Attack Airforce with Bombers
5 Attack Turns / 8 Supply Turns needed

Attack Training Facilities / Weapon Factories
5 Attack Turns / 8 Supply Turns needed

Attack Airforce Factories (SAM, Aircraft, Munition)
5 Attack Turns / 8 Supply Turns needed

While I understand that it is possible to target enemy aircraft if they are on the ground I would question then need to provide two separate options one for Helicopters and another for for Bombers. The only reason I can see for this would be around balancing AT and ST usage. I would have thought that it would have been better to have one option to Attack Airforce and then give the player the option to choose what units to use, Helicopters, Bombers or Both (if both were selected the cost could be 10AT and 16ST if necessary.

Why click two times if with two options you only need to click once?

I will also assume that all missions will include the use of Fighters - This needs to be clarified.

You are right with both things

The other big question is when and if we will see any further improvements with Spying. Currently all we are getting are total Airforce Action. This provides no worthwhile intelligence when considering attack options as it includes the power of units that will not be involved in the combat. As it is at the moment we will be attacking blindly and that would be an act of utter stupidity.

Yes, spying will be improved and will give you all important data on enemy airforce.

The only concern I have at this time is related to the expense. Building any Airforce is going to be an expensive exercise which means that new players will be exposed for some time. While there is a cost to the attacker it is not really that great for the more established players. I think that there needs to be some option created for small players to create some form of defense even if it is only a token defense. I think that players who cannot afford the current costs will quickly become disillusioned and leave if they are subjected to attacks which they cannot defend against in any manner. It is more a matter of perception, when you are small you expect to suffer losses when being attacked but you also expect to be able to build some defense that will cause some damage and you don't care what the cost to the attacker is.

There will be a tech that you can updrade to make your training facilities and factories better resistant to air strikes and another tech which makes your ground troops more resistant to air strikes. This will decrease the effectiveness of missions against players who dont have airforce and small players will benefit from these techs a lot.

I have also noted Nomads question about combined Airforce and Ground attacks and the response. This raises the question of Ground Forces against Airforce. I can see no realistic reason why some are not possible. Spies should be able to target both Mumitions, SAMS and Aircraft that are on the Ground or in Hangers and likewise Strike Soldiers should also be able to Target all units that are on the Ground. Mobile Artillery amd MBT against SAMS is obvious and realistic just as a Rocket Launcher is against a Helicopter in the air or a Fighter or Bomber is on the Ground. If it's fair for Air units to attack Ground Units then it's fair for Ground Units to Target Air Units in realistic situations.

Nomad wrote:I would like to see the option to send fighters, bombers, and helicopters all at once, instead of having to send bombers and heli's seperately with fighters in tow. Just a suggestion.

Kenzu wrote:

Manleva wrote:

Attack Ground Forces
5 Attack Turns / 8 Supply Turns needed

Attack Airforce with Helicopters
5 Attack Turns / 8 Supply Turns needed

Attack Airforce with Bombers
5 Attack Turns / 8 Supply Turns needed

Attack Training Facilities / Weapon Factories
5 Attack Turns / 8 Supply Turns needed

Attack Airforce Factories (SAM, Aircraft, Munition)
5 Attack Turns / 8 Supply Turns needed

While I understand that it is possible to target enemy aircraft if they are on the ground I would question then need to provide two separate options one for Helicopters and another for for Bombers. The only reason I can see for this would be around balancing AT and ST usage. I would have thought that it would have been better to have one option to Attack Airforce and then give the player the option to choose what units to use, Helicopters, Bombers or Both (if both were selected the cost could be 10AT and 16ST if necessary.

Why click two times if with two options you only need to click once?
Additional clicks are not that much of an issue if they provide you with more attack options. In this case you also combine two options that target the same thing into one and would gain more space on the screen. I will also add that the whole attack screen for the Airforce needs to be updated. I think it is rather pointless to be displaying the attackers geound forces actions and units when they are not even used. It should be displaying all of your Airforce stats instead. Also don't see any point in Ecenomic Unit stats being displayed at all as they are not relevant to combat

I will also assume that all missions will include the use of Fighters - This needs to be clarified.

You are right with both things

The other big question is when and if we will see any further improvements with Spying. Currently all we are getting are total Airforce Action. This provides no worthwhile intelligence when considering attack options as it includes the power of units that will not be involved in the combat. As it is at the moment we will be attacking blindly and that would be an act of utter stupidity.

Yes, spying will be improved and will give you all important data on enemy airforce.
This needs to be a priority

The only concern I have at this time is related to the expense. Building any Airforce is going to be an expensive exercise which means that new players will be exposed for some time. While there is a cost to the attacker it is not really that great for the more established players. I think that there needs to be some option created for small players to create some form of defense even if it is only a token defense. I think that players who cannot afford the current costs will quickly become disillusioned and leave if they are subjected to attacks which they cannot defend against in any manner. It is more a matter of perception, when you are small you expect to suffer losses when being attacked but you also expect to be able to build some defense that will cause some damage and you don't care what the cost to the attacker is.

There will be a tech that you can updrade to make your training facilities and factories better resistant to air strikes and another tech which makes your ground troops more resistant to air strikes. This will decrease the effectiveness of missions against players who dont have airforce and small players will benefit from these techs a lot.

While that is good I still believe that a new player need to have the ability to cause some losses to the attacker. As I said people don't really care what it cost's the attacker to make their attacks, they care about the results from their point of view. People would rather know that they can fairly quickly build some defense that will cause the attacker to suffer some losses no matter how small or ineffectual they are. Techs that will cut you losses when being attacked are fine but the downside with them is that it means what you invest in them is not invested in other areas. One way around this is to increase income which seems fair as the cost to account will be increasing.

I have also noted Nomads question about combined Airforce and Ground attacks and the response. This raises the question of Ground Forces against Airforce. I can see no realistic reason why some are not possible. Spies should be able to target both Mumitions, SAMS and Aircraft that are on the Ground or in Hangers and likewise Strike Soldiers should also be able to Target all units that are on the Ground. Mobile Artillery amd MBT against SAMS is obvious and realistic just as a Rocket Launcher is against a Helicopter in the air or a Fighter or Bomber is on the Ground. If it's fair for Air units to attack Ground Units then it's fair for Ground Units to Target Air Units in realistic situations.

Your reasoning is reasonable. How about we first get airforce working and revisit this issue later once airforce is properly working?

Yes, some things can be revisited at a later date if they will enhance or expand on the initial implementation however the initial implementation must cover all of the bases otherwise it will be seen as incomplete, unbalanced and unfair. Given the time that it has taken to get to the stage we currently are at many would perceive it as just another nail in the coffin.

Nomad wrote:I would like to see the option to send fighters, bombers, and helicopters all at once, instead of having to send bombers and heli's seperately with fighters in tow. Just a suggestion.

This would be the best option and I support it fully! It would make everything easier if you dont need to bother what to send and automatically send everything.

the damage bonus one can have with the higher levels of munition