Weapons for Assassins (Commandos), and sabotage commando rifles mission

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Post by Kenzu on Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:15 am

This has been suggested before and will be implemented in the future (Either in Round 4 or Round 5). Assassins will get weapons.

assassins = commandos

Now that we have weapons for soldiers and explosives for spies, assassins are left out, which leaves them cost efficient in terms of increasing total power at a low price, and not very vulnerable as they can only be targeted by attack soldiers and other assassins, while they face penalty on when attacked by attack soldiers. To balance out all types of military units, assassins will be required to build a weapon called "Commando Rifle" (name can be changed), which can be built right from beginning at a price of 200.000 (same price as pistol), and there are no levels for the weapon to be researched. The effect of the weapon will be the following: Assassins, who are armed with the weapon have full power and can be used to assassinate the enemy, while assassins without weapons behave in the same way as soldiers without weapons, namely have no power, count as "units in reserve", and when attacked by enemy soldiers or assassins will die at a rate of 2 dead assassins for each 1 dead attacking soldier/assassin.

This update also gives an advantage to spies, as they are no able to decimate enemy assassin power by sabotaging assassin weapons. There will be a mission, which will be added, namely "Sabotage Commando rifles", targeting the weapons of assassins.

Once this update is in place together with other updates which have been anounced the circle will close with all types of units being able to all other types of units, with the exception of defenders, whos role remains to merely defend your kuwal, uu and attack soldiers, spies and assassins from enemy attack soldiers.

This means that the following missions will exist:
attack soldiers kill defense soldiers (asssault)
attack soldiers kill attack soldiers (destruction)
attack soldiers kill spies (hunt spies)
attack soldiers kill commandos (hunt commandos)

spies kill spies (counterintelligence)
spies destroy weapons of attack soldiers and defense soldiers (sabotage)
spies destroy commando weapons (sabotage commando rifles)

commandos kill attack soldiers (Assassinate Offense)
commandos kill defense soldiers (Assassinate Defense)
commandos kill spies (Assassinate Covert)
commandos kill commandos (Assassinate Commandos)
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Weapons for Assassins (Commandos), and sabotage commando rifles mission Empty Re: Weapons for Assassins (Commandos), and sabotage commando rifles mission

Post by Nomad on Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:01 pm

Spoiler:
Kenzu wrote:This has been suggested before and will be implemented in the future (Either in Round 4 or Round 5). Assassins will get weapons.

assassins = commandos

Now that we have weapons for soldiers and explosives for spies, assassins are left out, which leaves them cost efficient in terms of increasing total power at a low price, and not very vulnerable as they can only be targeted by attack soldiers and other assassins, while they face penalty on when attacked by attack soldiers. To balance out all types of military units, assassins will be required to build a weapon called "Commando Rifle" (name can be changed), which can be built right from beginning at a price of 200.000 (same price as pistol), and there are no levels for the weapon to be researched. The effect of the weapon will be the following: Assassins, who are armed with the weapon have full power and can be used to assassinate the enemy, while assassins without weapons behave in the same way as soldiers without weapons, namely have no power, count as "units in reserve", and when attacked by enemy soldiers or assassins will die at a rate of 2 dead assassins for each 1 dead attacking soldier/assassin.

This update also gives an advantage to spies, as they are no able to decimate enemy assassin power by sabotaging assassin weapons. There will be a mission, which will be added, namely "Sabotage Commando rifles", targeting the weapons of assassins.

Once this update is in place together with other updates which have been anounced the circle will close with all types of units being able to all other types of units, with the exception of defenders, whos role remains to merely defend your kuwal, uu and attack soldiers, spies and assassins from enemy attack soldiers.

This means that the following missions will exist:
attack soldiers kill defense soldiers (asssault)
attack soldiers kill attack soldiers (destruction)
attack soldiers kill spies (hunt spies)
attack soldiers kill commandos (hunt commandos)

spies kill spies (counterintelligence)
spies destroy weapons of attack soldiers and defense soldiers (sabotage)
spies destroy commando weapons (sabotage commando rifles)

commandos kill attack soldiers (Assassinate Offense)
commandos kill defense soldiers (Assassinate Defense)
commandos kill spies (Assassinate Covert)
commandos kill commandos (Assassinate Commandos)

Just wanted to offer my opinion.

First assassins don't carry "rifles". They kill with knives, piano wire, poisons, and other "up close and personal" tools of the trade so I would like to see a better name used then Rifles. I do see 2 possible issue with the set up you are making but since I do not know how it fully works you will have to decide since you created the system. Why are spies with no explosives counted at full power yet assassins with no weapons not? Secondly it looks to be possible to over stuff ones assassins. Say you want 50K assassins armed. You can put 150K assassins in there forcing your enemy to kill 100K assassins before killing armed assassins. I gues what I am saying is what is the coralation between the death rates of armed and unarmed assassins?
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Weapons for Assassins (Commandos), and sabotage commando rifles mission Empty Re: Weapons for Assassins (Commandos), and sabotage commando rifles mission

Post by Kenzu on Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:46 pm

And I would say that it's not plausible for 50.000 "assassins" armed with knives and piano wires to "silently" kill thousands of people.

RA "assassins" are called special forces since round 1 I believe, and they are in transition to be renamed to commandos.

Imagine Commandos, are not Hitman 47 guys, but instead elite forces, such as paratroopers, who land deep in enemy territory, attack where needed and then get out.

When you attack enemy commandos, you fight armed ones first. After all armed ones are dead, you can go on and kill unarmed ones.

So If you have 50k armed and 100k unarmed, I keep attacking you and lose 50k to kill your 50k armed, and then if I continue, I will lose another 50k to kill 100k of your unarmed.
(it would work in similar fashion as assault missions, or destruction missions, first you kill armed and after all are unarmed, you kill unarmed at favourable ratio)

but spies without explosives can harm no one except spies themselves.
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Post by Nomad on Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:15 am

Well good you addressed the armed and unarmed difference, sounds like a good and reasonable way of doing things.

Yet you continue to say unarmed spies will be given full stat power with no weapons while no other class can do so. I must ask why? Why make the 1 stat so easy and cheap to power up? and why make spies the only one like that? why not do all classes the same and equally?
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Post by Kenzu on Tue Jul 19, 2011 5:18 pm

Well I prefer all stats be equally expensive. Making commandos require weapons gets us one step closer.

What do you suggest about the spies?
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Post by Nomad on Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:27 am

Kenzu wrote:Well I prefer all stats be equally expensive. Making commandos require weapons gets us one step closer.

What do you suggest about the spies?

make them same as strike, defense, and assassins/commandos. You have to arm them to get stat power?
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Post by Keinutnai on Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:16 pm

but why should they need explosives to be able to spy on other players?

because they need their stats for spying.
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Post by Nomad on Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:25 am

good point.
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Post by Keinutnai on Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:45 pm

another thing is that without explosives the only type of unit they can harm is only other spies, and you usually want to kill other spies for what? for sabotaging.

Of course if someone wants to stat build, they might simply train loads of spies, so in this particular case, spies will be cheapest for statbuilding, however if explosives are required for their stats, this will make the game much more complicated, as many people will not think about buying explosives for spies if they simply want to use them for reckon.
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Post by Nomad on Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:16 pm

Keinutnai wrote:another thing is that without explosives the only type of unit they can harm is only other spies, and you usually want to kill other spies for what? for sabotaging.

Of course if someone wants to stat build, they might simply train loads of spies, so in this particular case, spies will be cheapest for statbuilding, however if explosives are required for their stats, this will make the game much more complicated, as many people will not think about buying explosives for spies if they simply want to use them for reckon.

that didnt make much sense to me TBH.

you made 3 classes where you have to buy "tools/weapons/whatever" to get stat power, and by makeing all 4 the same your making it complicated? Thats a contridiction.

**i'm having an idea, I'll iron it out a bit more tho**
(Mental note to self,,,, iron out this idea)
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Post by Kenzu on Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:32 am

please explain your idea, how exactly do you think the spies should work?
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Post by Nomad on Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:17 am

Still trying to clean it up and fix obvious exploits and loopholes. If I can't fix those in my own mind there is no sense in posting here.


The basic idea is to completely change the way spy ops work, changing them to the point you can use the "arm spies" idea so all militery classes work alike. Thats not my problem tho, its how to change spy ops thats giving me trouble.
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Post by Kenzu on Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:39 am

so lets assume that you arm spies with something, like a weapon, or spy equipment,I guess you want it to cost same like assassin weapons for example.

If this is done, how do you want sabotage to work?
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Post by Nomad on Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:43 am

same as it does now?
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Post by Kenzu on Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:26 am

Weapons for Commandos has been released.
Report if you find any bugs. Thank you!
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