Who defends what

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Who defends what

Post by kingkongfan1 on Sat Jun 18, 2011 3:07 pm

...


Last edited by kingkongfan1 on Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:06 am; edited 1 time in total
avatar
kingkongfan1
Coalition Officer
Coalition Officer

ID : kingkongfan1(98)
Alliance : [The Marauder's Imperium]
Age : 50
Number of posts : 1387
Location : Skull Island
Registration date : 2010-01-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who defends what

Post by Admin on Sat Jun 18, 2011 6:25 pm

kingkongfan1 wrote:
Kenzu wrote:
virtual war does no harm to anyone

guess what, virtual gambling does no harm to anyone either.
The difference is that it's hard to make a move from virtual war to real war, sure you can go somewhere and join the military or something, but it's a completely different world of "hard" compared to taking money which you have at home and go to some betting place or casino

_________________
Disclaimer:
1) You are always welcome to correct my assumptions and understanding of a situation but please do so in a logical and sound manner.
2) If I ask stupid questions it's only because sometimes people aren't smart enough to ask these themselves.
3) Being condescending to some people helps me keep my sanity when I am forced to interact with them.

I hate PR, will never engage in it and will rain destruction on all who refuse to use their brains to think before they speak.
avatar
Admin
Admin

Number of posts : 4363
Registration date : 2008-08-18

View user profile http://www.aderanwars.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Who defends what

Post by kingkongfan1 on Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:49 pm

...


Last edited by kingkongfan1 on Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:07 am; edited 1 time in total
avatar
kingkongfan1
Coalition Officer
Coalition Officer

ID : kingkongfan1(98)
Alliance : [The Marauder's Imperium]
Age : 50
Number of posts : 1387
Location : Skull Island
Registration date : 2010-01-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who defends what

Post by Admin on Sat Jun 18, 2011 11:14 pm

I am not worried about the 99.999% of people who would not be affected by it
It's the 0.001% that I do not want to have a part in.

And kenzu never meant to talk about the majority who would never pick up a gun and shoot people just for playing some FPS, or go and gamble away their posessions because they thought they found a way to "beat" the system after testing it on an online version...

But causing violence IRL after massing/getting massed here is a much bigger step than virtual gambling => real gambling

_________________
Disclaimer:
1) You are always welcome to correct my assumptions and understanding of a situation but please do so in a logical and sound manner.
2) If I ask stupid questions it's only because sometimes people aren't smart enough to ask these themselves.
3) Being condescending to some people helps me keep my sanity when I am forced to interact with them.

I hate PR, will never engage in it and will rain destruction on all who refuse to use their brains to think before they speak.
avatar
Admin
Admin

Number of posts : 4363
Registration date : 2008-08-18

View user profile http://www.aderanwars.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Who defends what

Post by Manleva on Sun Jun 19, 2011 12:06 am

I am not in favor of a lottery myself but can see some logic in the underlying issue of resources being collected and not utilized.

How about this Tax be returned by adding the resources collected into the Trade Center
avatar
Manleva
Aderan Assassin
Aderan Assassin

ID : 999
Alliance : TMI
Age : 59
Number of posts : 659
Location : New Zealand
Registration date : 2009-08-17

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who defends what

Post by Nomad on Sun Jun 19, 2011 2:23 am

Manleva wrote:I am not in favor of a lottery myself but can see some logic in the underlying issue of resources being collected and not utilized.

How about this Tax be returned by adding the resources collected into the Trade Center

This is what I said in the biginning but was never listened to.


Admin wrote:I am not worried about the 99.999% of people who would not be affected by it
It's the 0.001% that I do not want to have a part in.

And kenzu never meant to talk about the majority who would never pick up a gun and shoot people just for playing some FPS, or go and gamble away their posessions because they thought they found a way to "beat" the system after testing it on an online version...

But causing violence IRL after massing/getting massed here is a much bigger step than virtual gambling => real gambling

I'd rather send 1000 men to a casino then end 1 mans life because someone who played killed them. Guess its a matter of priorities. I find the argument irrational and childish. I also find it disturbing you as an admin feel the need to defend your brother once again in forums as if he is incapable of doing it himself. The statement he made was not well put, thought out, or presented. The arguments against it outweigh by a large amount. Just yield to it and be done. There is no sense in arguing for a faulty logic.
avatar
Nomad
Alliance Leader
Alliance Leader

ID : WORD OF THE DAY
Hipocracy
hy·poc·ri·sy
Show Spelled[hi-pok-ruh-see]
–noun, plural -sies.

1. a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess.
2. the practice of professing standards, beliefs, etc, contrary to one's real character or actual behavior, esp the pretense of virtue and piety
3. a pretense of having some desirable or publicly approved attitude.

Number of posts : 4259
Location : Everywhere and nowhere at all.
Registration date : 2008-12-17

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who defends what

Post by Admin on Sun Jun 19, 2011 2:28 pm

1st post of this page

going to casino is a more likely event than going on a rampage. Those who would go on one would find any other number of reasons even without this game to go on one anyway.

Also i'm not defending anyone, kenzu made a statement, and king's reply completely missed the point of it. How that is "defending" and why that would be a bad thing is beyond me.

_________________
Disclaimer:
1) You are always welcome to correct my assumptions and understanding of a situation but please do so in a logical and sound manner.
2) If I ask stupid questions it's only because sometimes people aren't smart enough to ask these themselves.
3) Being condescending to some people helps me keep my sanity when I am forced to interact with them.

I hate PR, will never engage in it and will rain destruction on all who refuse to use their brains to think before they speak.
avatar
Admin
Admin

Number of posts : 4363
Registration date : 2008-08-18

View user profile http://www.aderanwars.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Who defends what

Post by Nimras on Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:39 pm

Admin wrote:1st post of this page

going to casino is a more likely event than going on a rampage. Those who would go on one would find any other number of reasons even without this game to go on one anyway.

Also i'm not defending anyone, kenzu made a statement, and king's reply completely missed the point of it. How that is "defending" and why that would be a bad thing is beyond me.

Hehe you go from defending Kenzu to defending your self for showing yet again lack of skill.

1. you did defend Kenzu sorry end of story no way out of it
2. King reply did not miss the point at all everyone else could see it but you can't apparently thats a problem.
3. Nomade is right i rather see people loose their money in gambling than go out and kill someone.

the fact is you have a strange way of thinking, you rather do what it takes to make sure there is no virtual gambling in fear that someone would turn around and gamble IRL.

Facts are that those going from virtual gambling to real gambling would have done it anyway so by letting them go virtual gambling you actually kept them away from REAL gambling for a tad longer that has been proven after 40 years of research Wink.

What i even find more desturbing is the fact that you fight to help people not gamble but people who go on a rampage to kill over your game WHICH can and will happen heck the % of that against someone going gambling IRL if we did the lottery would still be in favour of someone killing due to being massed in your game.

Its funny isn't it you fight for gambling ignoring the fact that there is a 3 time bigger chance someone will kill another person IRL due to your game than them go gambling over a lottery.

Now to get back on topic about the lottery idea not sure I see any benefit for the gamers in it but sure give it a test.

Nimras
Aderan Spy
Aderan Spy

Age : 34
Number of posts : 416
Location : Farum, Denmark
Registration date : 2010-06-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who defends what

Post by Admin on Sun Jun 19, 2011 6:55 pm

nimras if you dont plan to add anything to a topic then dont post at all please

Nimras wrote:Its funny isn't it you fight for gambling ignoring the fact that there is a 3 time bigger chance someone will kill another person IRL due to your game than them go gambling over a lottery.
and with crap like this i even feel sorry for having read that post.
show your workings or do not make up random statistics

_________________
Disclaimer:
1) You are always welcome to correct my assumptions and understanding of a situation but please do so in a logical and sound manner.
2) If I ask stupid questions it's only because sometimes people aren't smart enough to ask these themselves.
3) Being condescending to some people helps me keep my sanity when I am forced to interact with them.

I hate PR, will never engage in it and will rain destruction on all who refuse to use their brains to think before they speak.
avatar
Admin
Admin

Number of posts : 4363
Registration date : 2008-08-18

View user profile http://www.aderanwars.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Who defends what

Post by Nomad on Sun Jun 19, 2011 8:23 pm

Admin wrote:1st post of this page

going to casino is a more likely event than going on a rampage. Those who would go on one would find any other number of reasons even without this game to go on one anyway.

Also i'm not defending anyone, kenzu made a statement, and king's reply completely missed the point of it. How that is "defending" and why that would be a bad thing is beyond me.

first post of the page is an opinion, and just as i said before its about prioroties. You are concerned because you might send 0.001% of the players to a casino, yet don't seem to care someone may kill another person. Kinna weird but whatever.

Kenzu made a flimsy, weak, and borderline moronic statement and it was torn apart by real facts. You did choose to defend him for what ever reason you decided upon, and it makes you look poorly as well because you will not admit fault in the logic. Interestingly enough Kenzu is the only person I have ever seen you defend or act in such a way concerning. Why is that? The reason its "bad",,, which hoinestly it is not,,, is because you only do it with kenzu, and the logic is wrong and a failure.

Now to get this back on topic, simple state if you as admin feel this is viable or not and stop argueing semantics. Thats all your doing now. Facts are facts. Gamblers will gamble, and killers will kill, and stating you dont want to bring gambling to a war game because of the possible R/L effects,,,,, effects on gamblers,,,, you dont seem to care if it effects a killer,,,,,,,,,, well its just stupid.
avatar
Nomad
Alliance Leader
Alliance Leader

ID : WORD OF THE DAY
Hipocracy
hy·poc·ri·sy
Show Spelled[hi-pok-ruh-see]
–noun, plural -sies.

1. a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess.
2. the practice of professing standards, beliefs, etc, contrary to one's real character or actual behavior, esp the pretense of virtue and piety
3. a pretense of having some desirable or publicly approved attitude.

Number of posts : 4259
Location : Everywhere and nowhere at all.
Registration date : 2008-12-17

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who defends what

Post by kingkongfan1 on Sun Jun 19, 2011 9:46 pm

...


Last edited by kingkongfan1 on Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:05 am; edited 2 times in total
avatar
kingkongfan1
Coalition Officer
Coalition Officer

ID : kingkongfan1(98)
Alliance : [The Marauder's Imperium]
Age : 50
Number of posts : 1387
Location : Skull Island
Registration date : 2010-01-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Who defends what

Post by Admin on Sun Jun 19, 2011 9:47 pm

kenzu made a statement about general population, you went ahead just to point out the exceptions. how is that not missing the point?

Seriously explain to me that

also splitting this topic now

I'll go read the "tearing apart" again and see if it actually was, because if it was, i must have missed it

_________________
Disclaimer:
1) You are always welcome to correct my assumptions and understanding of a situation but please do so in a logical and sound manner.
2) If I ask stupid questions it's only because sometimes people aren't smart enough to ask these themselves.
3) Being condescending to some people helps me keep my sanity when I am forced to interact with them.

I hate PR, will never engage in it and will rain destruction on all who refuse to use their brains to think before they speak.
avatar
Admin
Admin

Number of posts : 4363
Registration date : 2008-08-18

View user profile http://www.aderanwars.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Who defends what

Post by kingkongfan1 on Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:18 pm

...


Last edited by kingkongfan1 on Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:09 am; edited 1 time in total
avatar
kingkongfan1
Coalition Officer
Coalition Officer

ID : kingkongfan1(98)
Alliance : [The Marauder's Imperium]
Age : 50
Number of posts : 1387
Location : Skull Island
Registration date : 2010-01-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who defends what

Post by Admin on Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:45 pm

Kenzu's post
Kenzu wrote:Aderan Wars should not encourage gambling.
Because gambling can turn into a gambling addiction, which is not only harmful to the individual, but also to the society.

Straightforward, hard to argue about what he meant.
Virtual gambling => risk to turn into gambling involving real money


So first someone please explain to me how this has been torn apart by real facts?
Just copy paste quotes and explain how it tears apart his statment, no need to write anything new. (It has been made clear that it's easy to understand, I am having difficulty to do so, so it shouldn't be hard to clarify it for me too)
I've already seen many stories of people who fell into gambling their lives away through means which didn't involve real money at start. Am I supposed to think now they were all made up?

_________________
Disclaimer:
1) You are always welcome to correct my assumptions and understanding of a situation but please do so in a logical and sound manner.
2) If I ask stupid questions it's only because sometimes people aren't smart enough to ask these themselves.
3) Being condescending to some people helps me keep my sanity when I am forced to interact with them.

I hate PR, will never engage in it and will rain destruction on all who refuse to use their brains to think before they speak.
avatar
Admin
Admin

Number of posts : 4363
Registration date : 2008-08-18

View user profile http://www.aderanwars.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Who defends what

Post by Keinutnai on Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:08 pm

kingkongfan1 wrote:
Admin wrote:
kingkongfan1 wrote:
Kenzu wrote:
virtual war does no harm to anyone

guess what, virtual gambling does no harm to anyone either.
The difference is that it's hard to make a move from virtual war to real war, sure you can go somewhere and join the military or something, but it's a completely different world of "hard" compared to taking money which you have at home and go to some betting place or casino

then let me rephrase, when I am done with the 3 minutes a day I now spend on AW, I go spend several hours on one of several sites where I gamble with virtual money, guess what, I have absolutely no desire to go to a real casino, ( & its not just because I do not have the money) that is my point... just because I am the exception to the rule doesn't make what I said wrong, or kenzu right... everyone has a right to their own opinion, mine & his differ, doesn't make either one right or wrong, & btw I have seen people who play these type of "war" games flip out walk into a resturant or the mall & start blowing people away... just the facts as I see them.

You dont have the desire to go to a real casino after virtual gamble, because you are one of the 99% of people who will not become addicted to gambling.
But 1 in 100 people does get addicted and after playing virtual gambling they will end up gambling for real money either in a casino or elsewhere.

"In America alone, problem gambling affects more than 15 million people. More than 3 million of these are considered severe problem gamblers, otherwise known as gambling addicts or pathological gamblers.
Problem gambling can strain your relationships, interfere with responsibilities at home and work, and lead to financial catastrophe. It may even lead you to do things you never thought possible, like stealing money to gamble or taking money meant for your children. You may think you can’t stop, but problem gambling and gambling addiction are treatable. If you’re ready to admit you have a problem and seek help, you can overcome your gambling problem and regain control of your life." -helpguide.org/mental/gambling_addiction.htm

Apparently gambling is more common than I believed. 15 million out of 300 million US citizens, thats 5% people who gamble, and 1% are gamblers who gamble so much that it throws their lifes into chaos.
Obviously all gamblers start gambling one day. This means that there is something as day 1. Everyone knows that their are casinos, some people will go there to try it out, and some of them end up as gamblers wasting their money regularly. There will be others who avoid casinos but through virtual gambling they might end up in with a gambling addiction which wouldn't start if they had not come in contact with virtual gambling that introduced them to it.


Last edited by Keinutnai on Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
avatar
Keinutnai
Aderan Assassin
Aderan Assassin

Alliance : World Republic
Number of posts : 663
Registration date : 2011-04-08

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who defends what

Post by Nomad on Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:08 pm

ignore the facts admin, hes your brother afterall.


Kinna hard to miss.




This is a WAR game.

WAR involves killing people.

Yet you show concern,,, more concern about someone becoming addicted to gambleing then someone killing someone. You refuse to see the point that was made.

Also,,,the title of this thread is very misleading. Might want to consider changing it to something more appropriate.
avatar
Nomad
Alliance Leader
Alliance Leader

ID : WORD OF THE DAY
Hipocracy
hy·poc·ri·sy
Show Spelled[hi-pok-ruh-see]
–noun, plural -sies.

1. a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess.
2. the practice of professing standards, beliefs, etc, contrary to one's real character or actual behavior, esp the pretense of virtue and piety
3. a pretense of having some desirable or publicly approved attitude.

Number of posts : 4259
Location : Everywhere and nowhere at all.
Registration date : 2008-12-17

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who defends what

Post by Nomad on Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:15 pm

Keinutnai wrote:
kingkongfan1 wrote:
Admin wrote:
kingkongfan1 wrote:
Kenzu wrote:
virtual war does no harm to anyone

guess what, virtual gambling does no harm to anyone either.
The difference is that it's hard to make a move from virtual war to real war, sure you can go somewhere and join the military or something, but it's a completely different world of "hard" compared to taking money which you have at home and go to some betting place or casino

then let me rephrase, when I am done with the 3 minutes a day I now spend on AW, I go spend several hours on one of several sites where I gamble with virtual money, guess what, I have absolutely no desire to go to a real casino, ( & its not just because I do not have the money) that is my point... just because I am the exception to the rule doesn't make what I said wrong, or kenzu right... everyone has a right to their own opinion, mine & his differ, doesn't make either one right or wrong, & btw I have seen people who play these type of "war" games flip out walk into a resturant or the mall & start blowing people away... just the facts as I see them.

You dont have the desire to go to a real casino after virtual gamble, because you are one of the 99% of people who will not become addicted to gambling.
But 1 in 100 people does get addicted and after playing virtual gambling they will end up gambling for real money either in a casino or elsewhere.

And once again to hopefully show you the entire point being made here that you both refuse to even acknowlege

You dont have the desire to go to war/kill after virtual war/killing game, because you are one of the 99% of people who will not become addicted to violence.
But 1 in 100 people does get addicted and after playing virtual war/killing games and they will end up killing people violently, or quietly, publicly or privately.

Both statements can be stated as truth. Both statements can be stated as moronic at best.

Now I want to see proof of your stories admin, proof of any story where someone played a MMORPG whos main focus was not gambling (All free of coures), yet made the jump to spending real money in a casino. The thing is I can show stories of people playing violently themed games (whos main focus is killing/conquring) who did make the jump to real life acts against others and themselves.

What you do not get is NO ONE is saying Kenzu is wrong, just that what he is saying is little more then foolish and a poor example. You dont want to add gambling to a WAR/killing game because you dont want to create a gambling addict, but you dont care to create a violence addict.



*edit* Addition.


Another frustration being voiced here is Kenzu has a nasty habit of stating things as "facts" Not as opinions. Add that to his repeated abuse of his admin account to do these things and maybe you can start to see the frustrations mounting.Your example of 1 in 100 is complete BS and everyone knows it but we also know its an example. Kenzu states

virtual war does no harm to anyone

Kong replies
guess what, virtual gambling does no harm to anyone either.

Yet you rebuttle Kong and not Kenzu. Both statements are just as true as the other so why have you rebuttled one and not the other?
avatar
Nomad
Alliance Leader
Alliance Leader

ID : WORD OF THE DAY
Hipocracy
hy·poc·ri·sy
Show Spelled[hi-pok-ruh-see]
–noun, plural -sies.

1. a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess.
2. the practice of professing standards, beliefs, etc, contrary to one's real character or actual behavior, esp the pretense of virtue and piety
3. a pretense of having some desirable or publicly approved attitude.

Number of posts : 4259
Location : Everywhere and nowhere at all.
Registration date : 2008-12-17

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who defends what

Post by Admin on Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:36 pm

Ok I agree that whole quote is just pulling the discussion into the ridiculous. Including my feeble attempt of actually bringing reason into that.

Usually when you check out these people who make real life acts of violence you'll find another pattern of abuse/other dysfunctions.
Causality wrt games is almost always missing in these cases?

Hence mine and kenzu's point that the % of virtual gambling that will lead to real gambling is massively higher because most of the time it IS the cause (people who get beat by their parents dont start going to casinos to spend their money).

Sure I could say, we shouldn't drink water, all of the people who commit violent acts drank water.

This would be stupid because it mistakes commonality with causality.


Spoiler:
I only see people like to ignore reason and just say "a he's the brother, he's always right". But then again, this is the internet, it thrives on half truths and general statements.

_________________
Disclaimer:
1) You are always welcome to correct my assumptions and understanding of a situation but please do so in a logical and sound manner.
2) If I ask stupid questions it's only because sometimes people aren't smart enough to ask these themselves.
3) Being condescending to some people helps me keep my sanity when I am forced to interact with them.

I hate PR, will never engage in it and will rain destruction on all who refuse to use their brains to think before they speak.
avatar
Admin
Admin

Number of posts : 4363
Registration date : 2008-08-18

View user profile http://www.aderanwars.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Who defends what

Post by Sandwalker on Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:12 am

Aderan Wars should not encourage gambling.

First statement has no weight at this point since you don't know why yet.

Because gambling can turn into a gambling addiction, which is not only harmful to the individual, but also to the society.

Yup, this is true. The only way to get an addiction of something is to do that something or for your mom to do that something while you're a fetus, but this last situation doesn't apply for all things so it's cool.

Now, stating the obvious has some appeal at first. But you have to understand, the chances of someone getting addicted to gambling after playing the lottery on a browser based game are ludicrously tiny.

In the same way, someone that farms can get addicted to stealing or, god forbid, farming. Someone that raids can get addicted to slavering. Someone that assassinates can get addicted to killing enemy agents.

Are you telling me somebody will come here, see a lottery for the first time ever, presumably after exiting a life long solitary confinement with no human interaction, yet somehow proficient at modern utilities and the written word, and get hooked on gambling?

I have news for you buds. If you're not addicted before joining the Aderan Wars lottery, you won't be after.


So, as I've tried to explain, Kenzu's first statement is false because it relies on an exaggeration (and/or intentionally generalized version) of the truth (the second statement). Is it POSSIBLE? Yup. Is it remotely likely? Nope.

Let me give you an example of how I can exaggerate to make it seem like I'm right. Aderan Wars should not have a cash market. Because buying stuff can turn into a shopping addiction, which is not only harmful to the individual, but also to the society.

Sandwalker
Aderan Super Soldier
Aderan Super Soldier

Number of posts : 750
Registration date : 2009-01-11

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who defends what

Post by Nomad on Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:51 am

Well said SW.

Admin, the point your still missing,,,,,,,,,,

Let me say it like this.

What would keep you awake at night more. Knowing 100 people became gambling addicts because of a game that you created,,, or that 1 man was murdered by another man who played your war game?

I can only hope you would consider the loss of life more disheartening then the loss of things which can be replaced. If you could honestly get addicted to gambling from a MMORPG then before your life is through you will be addicted by some other means. Same for violence. Only difference is violence is done to another, and gambling hurts ones self.

And I'll say it again and again as I have every time this pops up,,,,,Why is it only your brother you come here to defend? You don't defend others as you do him.

Anyway, this has become rather mute and pointless, and the title is still jacked.

Goodnight
avatar
Nomad
Alliance Leader
Alliance Leader

ID : WORD OF THE DAY
Hipocracy
hy·poc·ri·sy
Show Spelled[hi-pok-ruh-see]
–noun, plural -sies.

1. a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess.
2. the practice of professing standards, beliefs, etc, contrary to one's real character or actual behavior, esp the pretense of virtue and piety
3. a pretense of having some desirable or publicly approved attitude.

Number of posts : 4259
Location : Everywhere and nowhere at all.
Registration date : 2008-12-17

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who defends what

Post by Kenzu on Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:08 pm

There has been no scientific evidence, which would prove that violence in games increases the risk of people doing violent crimes or becomming more violent.

But we do hear claims from the media that games lead to violence, every now and then when a kid goes amok, killing his colleagues in some school, and police find out that he played Counterstrike. What they like to ignore is the fact that most people his age played Counterstrike, and also that playing a game and commiting a crime is no proof that the game has caused it. It's the same like saying that drinking water causes crime, because all criminals drink water.

If what you said was true, then considering that millions of people are playing violent games, but didnt play violent games 30 years ago should have led to a considerable increase in violence related crimes in all countries where gaming is popular, but currently I have not heard of any studies which would say there was any correlation.

But there has been a lot of evidence showing how gambling addictions start, and very often they start from something as innocent as playing poker with friends gambling with pennies, or other activities that introduce the person to gambling.
avatar
Kenzu
Alliance Leader
Alliance Leader

Age : 30
Number of posts : 3034
Registration date : 2008-12-03

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who defends what

Post by Nomad on Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:29 pm

Kenzu wrote:There has been no scientific evidence, which would prove that violence in games increases the risk of people doing violent crimes or becomming more violent.

But we do hear claims from the media that games lead to violence, every now and then when a kid goes amok, killing his colleagues in some school, and police find out that he played Counterstrike. What they like to ignore is the fact that most people his age played Counterstrike, and also that playing a game and commiting a crime is no proof that the game has caused it. It's the same like saying that drinking water causes crime, because all criminals drink water.

If what you said was true, then considering that millions of people are playing violent games, but didnt play violent games 30 years ago should have led to a considerable increase in violence related crimes in all countries where gaming is popular, but currently I have not heard of any studies which would say there was any correlation.

But there has been a lot of evidence showing how gambling addictions start, and very often they start from something as innocent as playing poker with friends gambling with pennies, or other activities that introduce the person to gambling.

Just can't let things die down huh?

The two examples are in perfect harmony and corrolation. They both follow the exact same pattern. Your water example applies to gamblers same as violent people. There is no difference between the 2. Sorry you can not, and will not accept they are one in the same.


Guess the kid in NY who ran down 2 hookers with his car who told police he was dared to do it by his passanger after 18 hrs of playing GTA ,,,,,,,,,,,,well, as I said, the point is mute now.
avatar
Nomad
Alliance Leader
Alliance Leader

ID : WORD OF THE DAY
Hipocracy
hy·poc·ri·sy
Show Spelled[hi-pok-ruh-see]
–noun, plural -sies.

1. a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess.
2. the practice of professing standards, beliefs, etc, contrary to one's real character or actual behavior, esp the pretense of virtue and piety
3. a pretense of having some desirable or publicly approved attitude.

Number of posts : 4259
Location : Everywhere and nowhere at all.
Registration date : 2008-12-17

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who defends what

Post by Nimras on Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:07 am

Kenzu wrote:There has been no scientific evidence, which would prove that violence in games increases the risk of people doing violent crimes or becomming more violent.

But we do hear claims from the media that games lead to violence, every now and then when a kid goes amok, killing his colleagues in some school, and police find out that he played Counterstrike. What they like to ignore is the fact that most people his age played Counterstrike, and also that playing a game and commiting a crime is no proof that the game has caused it. It's the same like saying that drinking water causes crime, because all criminals drink water.

If what you said was true, then considering that millions of people are playing violent games, but didnt play violent games 30 years ago should have led to a considerable increase in violence related crimes in all countries where gaming is popular, but currently I have not heard of any studies which would say there was any correlation.

But there has been a lot of evidence showing how gambling addictions start, and very often they start from something as innocent as playing poker with friends gambling with pennies, or other activities that introduce the person to gambling.

M8 problem is the following if you want to stick to your idea of this part:

Kenzu wrote:But we do hear claims from the media that games lead to violence, every now and then when a kid goes amok, killing his colleagues in some school, and police find out that he played Counterstrike. What they like to ignore is the fact that most people his age played Counterstrike, and also that playing a game and commiting a crime is no proof that the game has caused it. It's the same like saying that drinking water causes crime, because all criminals drink water.

If what you said was true, then considering that millions of people are playing violent games, but didnt play violent games 30 years ago should have led to a considerable increase in violence related crimes in all countries where gaming is popular, but currently I have not heard of any studies which would say there was any correlation.

Then the following is true for this part:

Kenzu wrote:But there has been 0 of evidence showing how gambling addictions start, and very often they start from something as innocent as playing poker with friends gambling with pennies, or other activities that introduce the person to gambling.

Facts is that there is no proof that violent games and movies and so forth makes people go amok as there is proof playing lottery and gambling virtual online leads to you do the same with RL money.

Fact is the following and no matter how you put it this is how it goese.

All the violence we see makes us imune to them meaning we react less to violence in our real life and accept it more often meaning we do not react as we should horrofiede and angry over the violence act done because we are now immune.

The people who actually go out and do voilent things after playing a game do it not because of the game but because it is something they have wanted to do for ages but lacked the courage to do or the little thing holding them back was just cut off doing to something happen IRL sadly sometimes that could be a massing in a GAME its not the game foult never will be but it sadly was the last straw so to speak.

For gambling its the same those who ends up doing it would have done it NO MATTER WHAT. All test, science proves the same.

Matter of fact the virtual and online gambling often stops them for going out IRL and loose their money sadly not all are stopped their but the fact they had some time gambling in a virtual manner made them hold a little longer.

The Science you talk about that CLAIMS other wise are the science that believes Drug addicts, smoke addicts, gambling addicts and Alchololics are ALL SICK, thats it a defective GENE and therefore a ILLNESS that can be cured with help and in some cases medicin because hey they are ILL. The only reason for these FALSE claimse and SCIENCE proof has won is thanks to NA and AA that gets tons of money basicly its a MONEY issue.

Facts are the same the gambling people are no less proned than any other and they are not sick nor is there a chance by starting gambling will do it with RL money.

I mean just look at the Violence part there is over 40 times as many people playing Virtual gambling and the fact is even with that many more there is still 3 times as many doing violence crimes claiming its a game fault than people going from virtual gambling to actuall gambling and ending in problems THIS IS A FACT PROVEN.

And now please let it go you lost your wrong and you know it.

Nimras
Aderan Spy
Aderan Spy

Age : 34
Number of posts : 416
Location : Farum, Denmark
Registration date : 2010-06-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who defends what

Post by Kenzu on Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:25 am

Nomad wrote:Guess the kid in NY who ran down 2 hookers with his car who told police he was dared to do it by his passanger after 18 hrs of playing GTA ,,,,,,,,,,,,well, as I said, the point is mute now.

Source please
Where do you have this info from?

@Nimras
I do believe that watching violence, or doing it in games makes us less sensitive to violence.
Someone who has never seen violence it might throw up if they see a dead body, but someone who has seen a lot of violence, even if it was not real, might be less sensitive to it.
However this doesn't mean that just because we watch violence, we will become more violent.
avatar
Kenzu
Alliance Leader
Alliance Leader

Age : 30
Number of posts : 3034
Registration date : 2008-12-03

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who defends what

Post by Nomad on Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:49 am

I have not found the one from NY but I'm still looking, here are a few that have turned up so far tho,,,

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/2497978/Grand-Theft-Auto-blamed-over-Thai-taxi-driver-murder.html

http://spong.com/article/18682/Grand-Theft-Auto-Blamed-for-Increase-in-Car-Surfing-Deaths

http://www.abqtrib.com/news/2006/sep/25/video-game-maker-blamed-04-killing/

http://www.ripten.com/2008/08/04/murder-blamed-on-gta-sales-haulted/

http://www.thatvideogameblog.com/2008/08/09/car-bombings-blamed-on-grand-theft-auto/

http://www.xbox365.com/news.cgi?id=EpyZppAkpuASkoNJmX9204

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8889445/

http://www.onpointnews.com/NEWS/teens-murder-spree-blamed-on-video-game.html
avatar
Nomad
Alliance Leader
Alliance Leader

ID : WORD OF THE DAY
Hipocracy
hy·poc·ri·sy
Show Spelled[hi-pok-ruh-see]
–noun, plural -sies.

1. a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess.
2. the practice of professing standards, beliefs, etc, contrary to one's real character or actual behavior, esp the pretense of virtue and piety
3. a pretense of having some desirable or publicly approved attitude.

Number of posts : 4259
Location : Everywhere and nowhere at all.
Registration date : 2008-12-17

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Who defends what

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum