Wounded/Healed units

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Wounded/Healed units

Post by seaborgium on Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:12 pm

We are being told that 4% is healed per turn. However I am only get less then 1%, which I am guessing is a rounding thing..
as of 6:45 gametime I have the following

Wounded/Healed Units 319,041 129,702

at 7:12 game time I have the following

Wounded/Healed Units 318,775 129,968

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Re: Wounded/Healed units

Post by Kingofshinobis1 on Tue Mar 15, 2011 5:20 pm

yes but that is just for one turn. you get 4% per day lol.

do this. (266 / 319,041) x 48 = 4%

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Re: Wounded/Healed units

Post by seaborgium on Tue Mar 15, 2011 5:24 pm

28 December 2010:

NEW FEATURES:
# Half of all attack and defense units killed in Assault and Destruction missions will now return as wounded units. These will slowly get healed and you can then train these healed units back as attack or defense soldiers for no extra cost.

Is all it says. Admin has only said 4%. He ever told anyone per day or per turn. So unless someone asked, they wouldn't even know its 4%.

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Re: Wounded/Healed units

Post by Kingofshinobis1 on Tue Mar 15, 2011 5:27 pm

yeah i just kinda figured it out on my own. btw i wish it was 4% per turn Smile that would be awesome lol. anyways it should be added to the tooltip or something

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Re: Wounded/Healed units

Post by doxakk on Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:13 pm

I didn't know about the 4% but I calculated that my units would take 25 days to heal so 4%/day sounds right.
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Re: Wounded/Healed units

Post by Nomad on Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:36 pm

doxakk wrote:I didn't know about the 4% but I calculated that my units would take 25 days to heal so 4%/day sounds right.

it would take 25 days to heal the lat 25 men alone wouldn't it?

at 100 men your only healing 4 per day so at 25 men it would be 1 per day?
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Re: Wounded/Healed units

Post by Kenzu on Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:18 am

obviously 4% per day.
If you healed 4% per turn which is equal to healing 86% per day.

Healing 86% of all wounded in a single day is not my defition of healing slowly
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Re: Wounded/Healed units

Post by Manleva on Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:27 am

Kenzu wrote:obviously 4% per day.
If you healed 4% per turn which is equal to healing 86% per day.

Healing 86% of all wounded in a single day is not my defition of healing slowly

Firstly there's something wrong with your maths Kenzu. 4% per turn should be 192% per day

Secondly, the actual % per turn is 0.0872% which comes out at 4.186% per day
Now if you have 10000 wounded it's going to take 153 days to reach the point where 4% per day drops below 1 healed unit.

Now I don't think anyone has any issues with 4% per day while the number of wounded units is high. It's the fact that as the number of wounded units drops then the healing time increases.

I suppose that there are two schools of thought on this. The first would say that if you have 10000 wounded and the capacity to heal 400 on day one you should have the same capacity on each subsequent day. this would mean all 10000 would be healed in 25 days.

The second group would argue that the wounded units were not all injured to the same extent so of the 10000 wounded the medical staff dealt with numerous types of injuries. The first 400 healed were those with very minor injuries that a sticking plaster fixed. on the second day those that needed 2 sticking plasters were healed. Basically saying a longer healing period is required as the seriousness of the injury increases.

Both points of view are valid. Personally I think that there needs to be some balance where units are not healed either to quickly or to slowly but it's not something that can be done simply and easily and is balanced across the player base.

A possibility with the Hospital when it comes along would be to include a bed feature where you can buy additional beds. The number of beds would control the number of units that can be healed per day. The amount of beds that can be purchased is caped and relates to the number of Strike and Defense units you have. This would prevent players just buying beds so that healing rates were abused. It also leaves a risk for players who choose not to buy beds as they would have a longer healing time.
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Re: Wounded/Healed units

Post by Nomad on Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:45 am

Manleva wrote:
A possibility with the Hospital when it comes along would be to include a bed feature where you can buy additional beds. The number of beds would control the number of units that can be healed per day. The amount of beds that can be purchased is caped and relates to the number of Strike and Defense units you have. This would prevent players just buying beds so that healing rates were abused. It also leaves a risk for players who choose not to buy beds as they would have a longer healing time.

I happen to agree with the secons thought process about the severity of the wounds deciding the length of time to recovery.

The above idea is pretty good, and very siniliar to my idea, but I went with hospital staff instead of beds. I mean look at it like this


The hospital is just a building, and its the same building no matter the staff. So a hospital with 10,000 rooms and therefore 10,000 patients but has 1 doctor and 2 nurses,,,,,, well the survival rate is going to be very small.

But if those same 10,000 patients had 1,000 doctors, and 5,000 nurses along with a supporting cast of physical theripist, phocologist, and counsilers well the survival rate is much, much higher.

I even considered the hospital a 1 time fee, but the amount of doctors and nurses you want to have should depend on the amount of per turn income you channel into healthcare,,,, so in effect its a per use cost. You need doctors and nurses then pay for them, if not then lay them off.

Lastly I think the present set up is really beginning to be an issue because I was told some have 1 mill injured still. Thats 1 mill men weighing on your AE and not offering military od income benifits for months.
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Re: Wounded/Healed units

Post by kingkongfan1 on Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:38 pm

Whats next? having to build apartments to house the dr's & nurses? building physical & psycological rehab centers? I mean, come on,,, lets just scrap this game & just hop on over to Red Apocalypse... thats what you guys are proposing here, basicly turning AW into RA... Whatever!!! I give up!
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Re: Wounded/Healed units

Post by Admin on Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:11 pm

i agree with king, it just keeps getting more complicated

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Re: Wounded/Healed units

Post by Kingofshinobis1 on Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:10 pm

cant we just have a hard set number instead of a % to make it fair for everyone besides those who have far more wounded?

I.E.

Player A has 100,000 wounded.
Player B has 500,000 wounded

Number to be healed per day is 25,000 or something

Player A takes 4 days to fully heal
Player B takes 20 days but everyone heals the same no matter what.

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Re: Wounded/Healed units

Post by kingkongfan1 on Wed Mar 16, 2011 5:10 pm

Kingofshinobis1 wrote:cant we just have a hard set number instead of a % to make it fair for everyone besides those who have far more wounded?

I.E.

Player A has 100,000 wounded.
Player B has 500,000 wounded

Number to be healed per day is 25,000 or something

Player A takes 4 days to fully heal
Player B takes 20 days but everyone heals the same no matter what.

got a dollar that kenzu says this is not his Idea of "healing slowly", but I understand what you are saying...
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Re: Wounded/Healed units

Post by Kingofshinobis1 on Wed Mar 16, 2011 7:36 pm

Well it doesnt have to be 25k. it can be lower but im tired of this 4% stuff imo

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Re: Wounded/Healed units

Post by ghyogod on Wed Mar 16, 2011 8:20 pm

why not increasing to 10% ?

i have a question.
if i would have 50k wounded from a week ago and 50k wounded fro today, does the 4% apply to the sum, or it applies to the parts?
it would not be fair for a soldier who faught so bravely under my banner to stay in the hospital another two weeks just because another brave soldier got hurt too and they cannot heal in the same time, cause god sais 4% of what number of wounded i have at any moment not careing for the time my brave soldier spent in the hospital, forgotten..
is this not cruel, dear God?

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Re: Wounded/Healed units

Post by Admin on Wed Mar 16, 2011 8:43 pm

the logic why we started with 4% is very simple.

if i start low and increase it slowly then no one will complain, or at least fewer people will complain.
If i start out with 20% and find out that only 5-6% would be acceptable then people would whine a lot

@ghy explain your definition of "from a week ago" and "from today" because it makes very little sense.
cos then you end up with conclusions like "you had 0 wounded a week ago" you will receive 0 healed now

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Re: Wounded/Healed units

Post by Kingofshinobis1 on Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:08 pm

ghyogod wrote:why not increasing to 10% ?

i have a question.
if i would have 50k wounded from a week ago and 50k wounded fro today, does the 4% apply to the sum, or it applies to the parts?
it would not be fair for a soldier who faught so bravely under my banner to stay in the hospital another two weeks just because another brave soldier got hurt too and they cannot heal in the same time, cause god sais 4% of what number of wounded i have at any moment not careing for the time my brave soldier spent in the hospital, forgotten..
is this not cruel, dear God?

so your saying if you had 50k wounded now but healed lets say 25k of them. and then got another 50k wounded that you would have 100k total? if so then thats not the case. 75k is 75k no matter when they were wounded.

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Re: Wounded/Healed units

Post by ghyogod on Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:24 pm

i ment to say this.
if a week ago i had 50k wounded. then yesterday i should have healed already from that lot somethin like 50k *4%+ (50k * 96%)*4% +.. and so on.
and lets say that yesterday i did another set of assaults and added another 50k wounded to the aproximately 40k left.
=> ~90k wounded.
apparently everything is fine cause
sum 4% of the parts = 4% sum of the parts.
but when u calc the number of healed each turn u round the number makeing it so that when left with very few wounded soldiers their recovery becomes faster when added another (substantial) number of wounded. it may not be of significance but it is twisted.
so why not have a database to memorise the amount of wounded each day and heal a fixed percent *(4%) each day so that u do not heal less soldiers when haveing less wounded. then each lot of wounded would be completely recovered after 25 days and not half a year.

scenario>
day one 100k soldiers arrive in the hospital. each day 4k would heal.
day two 40k more wounded arrive. each day 1600 would heal.
in the first day i heal 4k, for the next 24 days 5600 and 1600 in the 25th.
heal them independently and people will be contempt.

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Re: Wounded/Healed units

Post by Nomad on Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:42 pm

Admin wrote:i agree with king, it just keeps getting more complicated

your the one putting half assed AW2/RA updates in main and forcing things we didnt want,,,,,,,,, so who is really making things complicated?

I'm just sick of having USELESS men on my account for months and months and months.


Someone more gifted them myself please do the math on 1 mill wounded units, how long will it take to heal them?



*edit*
OK let me explain a little better, because thats sounds alot harsher then I mean it.

You took away 1/2 of the units that give the best WE from us. (a definite down side to the update)
You "claim" this is to help "encourage" war, but yet it is completely USELESS when it comes to its intended pourpose of helping you rebuild since it takes weeks to get enough wounded units back to actually rebuild. This is great for "long term" rebuilding, but sucks ass when it comes to rebuilding after war since you have to rebuild quickly to stop the farming and such. Those who have to build strikes to have the capacity to counterstrike are screwed with this update as well. All we are asking for is some way to speed it up to the point of actually being useful.

You did put inplace an unfinished update, and it is frustrating alot of people who have to suffer from the down sides of this update. Why couldnt you have left this in RA/AW2 until it was a complete idea instead of using the exact same idea, and leaving it half done? remeber those who large amounts of wounded suffer the effects of them on AE yet can not use them for military stat, nor economic income.
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Re: Wounded/Healed units

Post by ghyogod on Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:11 pm

in aproximately two months u will have healed 90%.
four months for 99% healed
Basketball

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Re: Wounded/Healed units

Post by Kenzu on Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:15 am

Nomad wrote:
Admin wrote:i agree with king, it just keeps getting more complicated

your the one putting half assed AW2/RA updates in main and forcing things we didnt want,,,,,,,,, so who is really making things complicated?

I'm just sick of having USELESS men on my account for months and months and months.


Someone more gifted them myself please do the math on 1 mill wounded units, how long will it take to heal them?



*edit*
OK let me explain a little better, because thats sounds alot harsher then I mean it.

You took away 1/2 of the units that give the best WE from us. (a definite down side to the update)
You "claim" this is to help "encourage" war, but yet it is completely USELESS when it comes to its intended pourpose of helping you rebuild since it takes weeks to get enough wounded units back to actually rebuild. This is great for "long term" rebuilding, but sucks ass when it comes to rebuilding after war since you have to rebuild quickly to stop the farming and such. Those who have to build strikes to have the capacity to counterstrike are screwed with this update as well. All we are asking for is some way to speed it up to the point of actually being useful.

You did put inplace an unfinished update, and it is frustrating alot of people who have to suffer from the down sides of this update. Why couldnt you have left this in RA/AW2 until it was a complete idea instead of using the exact same idea, and leaving it half done? remeber those who large amounts of wounded suffer the effects of them on AE yet can not use them for military stat, nor economic income.

its wrong to say people didnt want it.
There was a survey and Most peple voted in support of it and that's why it came.
Then again most people voted only for strike missions, and only a minority supported wounded for sabotage and assassinations. I personally believe there should be wounded either for all types of units or none.

the units heal slow so that you can rebuild faster after a war. It's not meant to give you a pool of fresh troops during a war or short skirmish. However in wars that last weeks or months it is of great help as it saves a substantial amount of money.

Manleva wrote:
Kenzu wrote:obviously 4% per day.
If you healed 4% per turn which is equal to healing 86% per day.

Healing 86% of all wounded in a single day is not my defition of healing slowly

Firstly there's something wrong with your maths Kenzu. 4% per turn should be 192% per day

Secondly, the actual % per turn is 0.0872% which comes out at 4.186% per day
Now if you have 10000 wounded it's going to take 153 days to reach the point where 4% per day drops below 1 healed unit.

Now I don't think anyone has any issues with 4% per day while the number of wounded units is high. It's the fact that as the number of wounded units drops then the healing time increases.

I suppose that there are two schools of thought on this. The first would say that if you have 10000 wounded and the capacity to heal 400 on day one you should have the same capacity on each subsequent day. this would mean all 10000 would be healed in 25 days.

The second group would argue that the wounded units were not all injured to the same extent so of the 10000 wounded the medical staff dealt with numerous types of injuries. The first 400 healed were those with very minor injuries that a sticking plaster fixed. on the second day those that needed 2 sticking plasters were healed. Basically saying a longer healing period is required as the seriousness of the injury increases.

Both points of view are valid. Personally I think that there needs to be some balance where units are not healed either to quickly or to slowly but it's not something that can be done simply and easily and is balanced across the player base.

A possibility with the Hospital when it comes along would be to include a bed feature where you can buy additional beds. The number of beds would control the number of units that can be healed per day. The amount of beds that can be purchased is caped and relates to the number of Strike and Defense units you have. This would prevent players just buying beds so that healing rates were abused. It also leaves a risk for players who choose not to buy beds as they would have a longer healing time.

no it's not. To calculate how much heal in one day if 4% heal per turn, you have to use this formula:
1-(1-0.04)^48= 0.86 = 86%

the beds idea is a nice one. Would you mind suggesting more details how it should work (including some numbers)?

192% is incorrect, because if you had 10.000 units in turn 1, then you would heal 400 only in the first turn. in the next turn you would heal less, because you wouldn't have 10.000 wounded anymore.
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Re: Wounded/Healed units

Post by kingkongfan1 on Thu Mar 17, 2011 1:27 am

Kenzu wrote:
(1)its wrong to say people didnt want it.
There was a survey and Most peple voted in support of it and that's why it came.
Then again most people voted only for strike missions, and only a minority supported wounded for sabotage and assassinations. (2)I personally believe there should be wounded either for all types of units or none.

(1A) I am a person, & I did not want this then, & I do not want this now...
(2A) I agree with kenzu on this, so lets scrap this whole wounded/healed nonsense, & go back to the build'em & kill'em set up...


nobody seems to get it, I do not want to rebuild the monster strike I had during the war, so now I have several hundred thousands of wounded/healed units that I can only use in either Attack/Defense soldiers that totally screw with my income due to weapons upkeep, or I let them set useless on my acct. screwing up my A.E. either way I am screwed with these units!!! if I could sell them, or train them into economy it might be different, but as it is, it is just irritating...
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Re: Wounded/Healed units

Post by Manleva on Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:54 am

Well to be honest I have gone off the bed idea because as Kong says it's to much like RA and as Admin has said it needs to be simple.

the units heal slow so that you can rebuild faster after a war. It's not meant to give you a pool of fresh troops during a war or short skirmish. However in wars that last weeks or months it is of great help as it saves a substantial amount of money.

I partially get this Kenzu but Like others I think that the time to heal all wounded units is far to long.

@ Nomad - I can't see how wounded units have negatively altered or impacted rebuilding in any way since their inclusion. More the opposite because you get a pool of Healed units that cost nothing to train.

I'm pretty sure I saw someone mention AE earlier but I cannot see any relevance at all. Wounded/Healed units don't count toward your Total Population so they won't impact AE.

I have thought of a simpler formula

Wounded Units x X% =Y
If Y is less than Z then Heal Z else Heal Y

In the above you start by using a percentage but when the percentage drops below a set value then that value is used instead to heal the remaining Wounded Units.

Alternatively it could be along the lines of
if Wounded Units are greater than x then healed units = wounded units x X%
else healed units = Y

You could even include a number of steps if necessary
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Re: Wounded/Healed units

Post by ghyogod on Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:26 am

vote for manleva Exclamation

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Re: Wounded/Healed units

Post by Nomad on Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:44 am

Manleva wrote:
@ Nomad - I can't see how wounded units have negatively altered or impacted rebuilding in any way since their inclusion. More the opposite because you get a pool of Healed units that cost nothing to train.

I'm pretty sure I saw someone mention AE earlier but I cannot see any relevance at all. Wounded/Healed units don't count toward your Total Population so they won't impact AE.

Manleva,,

If a war ended, do you wait the 4 months suggested by ghyogad? waiting for your men to heal? I do not. I go ahead and train my def immediately to stop the farming and it stops me from having to use income controling stratagies such as critical and relaxed. That means this free "pool" of men are good only for strike. Now as Kong has shown, if you do not want a massive strike due to not needing it, only farming so wanting minimum strike, or wanting to avoid the weapons upkeep associated with bigger military forces,,,,, well they are useless to you. I mean yes you can let them sit there doing nothing if you want,, you cant sell them, you cant use them for income, and you dont/need or want them in your military.

As for not counting towards population,,,, ADMIN can you confirm this, because by the numbers on my account this is not the case. All wounded units are counted, and therefore do negatively effect your AE. I am not saying that is the case for sure, so I'm asking Admin to verify.
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Re: Wounded/Healed units

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