New Players flood Aderan Wars

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Re: New Players flood Aderan Wars

Post by Kenzu on Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:44 am

Mystake wrote:also SGW being based on scifi didn't contribute to its popularity.

its just a theme. besides that, its like any other game out there for the most part. It's the small details that really make a difference, like the kind where ANYONE could 'afford' to play.

permanent SS here is like 100$ isn't it?! that's more than a day's worth of work for most ppl.

You can play without SS, also there are loads of people who have big accounts and never donated a single penny.
If you want SS, you can also have it by paying someone ingame resources and they will buy it for you. Loads of people do that.
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Re: New Players flood Aderan Wars

Post by Kingofshinobis1 on Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:21 am

Nomad wrote:it was suggested that once you reached 100$ total you got permanant, but I dont think it became an update.


@ mystake, I think it helped alot, because the cult following to that movie/series is like the one for star ship troopers,,,,, very hardcore and very far reaching.

ah i remember now. its if you spend 100 dollars you get to change the color of your name. my mistake

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Re: New Players flood Aderan Wars

Post by Mystake on Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:05 am

@kenzu, the point is the game play is based on spending $, that's a major turn off for a lot of players and it relies on there being ppl willing to spend money on the game.

face it, it's an essential feature. extremely popular on sgw because it was possible for /anyone/ to get it.

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Re: New Players flood Aderan Wars

Post by Whatamidoinghere on Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:43 am

Well, SS is quite optional. I get by just fine without it, because the trade center supplies pretty much all of my needs. Honestly, it's not that big of a deal. It's not like you can't use a resource until you hit a level cap or something.

I joined about a year later than lots of people. Right now, I'm ranked 32. I'm not hardcore; I log on once in the morning, once when I get home from school, and once or twice before bed.

Oh, and I only get 55% income efficiency. Those bigger than me can attest to getting worse percentages. The bigger you are, the slower you grow, which is nice as it closes the gap between those who started on day 1 and those who didn't. I can't tell you how many games I've seen where the top 10% of active players are so far ahead of everyone else that it's not even worth trying to catch up. In ADW, that's not the case.

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Re: New Players flood Aderan Wars

Post by Nomad on Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:27 pm

Whatamidoinghere wrote:Well, SS is quite optional. I get by just fine without it, because the trade center supplies pretty much all of my needs. Honestly, it's not that big of a deal. It's not like you can't use a resource until you hit a level cap or something.

I joined about a year later than lots of people. Right now, I'm ranked 32. I'm not hardcore; I log on once in the morning, once when I get home from school, and once or twice before bed.

Oh, and I only get 55% income efficiency. Those bigger than me can attest to getting worse percentages. The bigger you are, the slower you grow, which is nice as it closes the gap between those who started on day 1 and those who didn't. I can't tell you how many games I've seen where the top 10% of active players are so far ahead of everyone else that it's not even worth trying to catch up. In ADW, that's not the case.

I am not trying to argue against you,,,,, but I just want to point out one thing.


You don't war.


Without SS your crippled in war, you recover about 5 times slower, and you run out of resources 10 times faster because you can only liquidate 16 MT worth of goods. When and if you war, and not just build and bank, you will see how limited non SS players really are. (Thats not a dig at you for your play style, so please don't take it as such)
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Re: New Players flood Aderan Wars

Post by r1maru on Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:50 pm

Nomad wrote:You don't war.

Are you talking to me ? I don't see anyone else around...

You Want A WAR? I'll Give You A War

as of now, my alliance is in war with the nomad

as soon as i find out what your id is, all members from my alliance will attack you
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Re: New Players flood Aderan Wars

Post by Mystake on Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:58 pm

the point is, this game was designed to be played with SS. It is of the near same design as SGW (because that is where this is inspired from)

SGW was designed to be successful if played with SS. Hence why anyone can get it. ADW was inspired by SGW... sooo... get where I'm going with this?

Martin, come in here and stop sending your little brother to talk to us. This concerns you, ya know

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Re: New Players flood Aderan Wars

Post by Mystake on Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:40 pm

still waiting on u kenzu to msg me on msn

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Re: New Players flood Aderan Wars

Post by Admin on Sun Mar 13, 2011 2:52 am

Mystake wrote:the point is, this game was designed to be played with SS. It is of the near same design as SGW (because that is where this is inspired from)

SGW was designed to be successful if played with SS. Hence why anyone can get it. ADW was inspired by SGW... sooo... get where I'm going with this?

Martin, come in here and stop sending your little brother to talk to us. This concerns you, ya know
not sending anyone. I've been checking usually the sections that are directed towards me.

Anyways, the SS sytem can and will get an overhaul.
I'm sure something could be arranged, like 5/10$ packages remain the same but anything above 50$ (donations in total including invitation bonuses for new players) gets you a permanent, etc.

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Re: New Players flood Aderan Wars

Post by seaborgium on Sun Mar 13, 2011 3:50 am

I think if you get the invitation SS and already have permanent SS that you can give it to someone you invited. No I don't think you can give them the 100% of what you get, but maybe 25-50% depending on the time frame.

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Re: New Players flood Aderan Wars

Post by Nomad on Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:07 am

does make it so all those who have SS (permanant) get squat from inviting players.
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Re: New Players flood Aderan Wars

Post by Mystake on Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:12 am

i dont think 50$ for permanent SS is a 'fair' price, when a competing (and proven successful game) offers it for 2/5th of that.

That, or your 5, 10 and 25$ packages need to offer a serious amount more time. And try to tell me this isnt' a subscription based game.

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Re: New Players flood Aderan Wars

Post by Manleva on Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:17 am

This is an interesting branch of the discussion. Mystake, it is possible for people without SS to build a decent account. It takes a bit more thought and more care but I managed to keep up with easily with many others without it.

Getting back more in line with the title it would be interesting to know what percentage of this "Flood" are actually staying around for any length of time and is the active player base increasing.
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Re: New Players flood Aderan Wars

Post by Kenzu on Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:44 pm

Like in all games, also on AW most of people who register don't come back to log in a second time. It's mainly because most of the players who register have never played a browser game before, they don't want to play a game which lasts more than one session, they consider the game too complicated, or they are simply too lazy to learn how to play a new game.

I was making an analysis asking people to register and try to play the game, where I wouldn't give them any advice and simply sit beside them and watch carefully what they do. They would also tell me what they like or dislike about the game, and I have also seen where are the weaknesses.

Most people have said that after registering they felt the game is very complicated, with a lot of text and many numbers which they didn't understand. Even though there was a tutorial, most didn't even bother to open it at all. And most people were learning the game by first looking around the pages of the sidebar to have an overview of what is possible in the game and then by a simple trail and error. I believe this is a strong weakness of the game, having less than 10% of those who register keep playing.

At the same time, when I give them advice what to do, then much more people keep playing. Obviously it isn't possible to give personal advice when thousands of people register and I am looking for ways how to make the game easier to understand, also by looking what the most successful games have done.

The most successful games use one of more of these things:
-Ingame advice, which often highlights the place where you are suposed to do something. Often made in a way of miniquests with rewards.
-Short tutorial videos which introduce the game and teach basic steps
-Strong social interaction aspect of the game where players teach each other how to play.
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Re: New Players flood Aderan Wars

Post by Nomad on Sun Mar 13, 2011 2:52 pm

Mystake wrote:i dont think 50$ for permanent SS is a 'fair' price, when a competing (and proven successful game) offers it for 2/5th of that.

That, or your 5, 10 and 25$ packages need to offer a serious amount more time. And try to tell me this isnt' a subscription based game.

Well you have to take into consideration alot mote then just 1 aspect. What other aspects of the "other" game is there? I mean if you compare it to SGW you will see a major difference in the fact there is NO limitation to the amount of $$ you can spend in SGW and the game is set up to be more of a $$ mule drawing in large sums of $$ from the ingame BM. This game is much different in that it limits you in both bought and sold goods from BM and bought and sold goods player to player. Therefore the prices of SS can't and shouldnt be the same. You have to take everything into account, not a single aspect. (but let me also say the ability to get SS from ingame sacrifises is what drew me to SGW personally)


Kenzu wrote:Like in all games, also on AW most of people who register don't come back to log in a second time. It's mainly because most of the players who register have never played a browser game before, they don't want to play a game which lasts more than one session, or they are simply too lazy to learn how to play a new game.

This is your "opinion" not facts. I happen to think the first 2 are complete and total crap. Last one does have some merit, but when coupled with your statement about not returning for a second time it also make that one total crap as well. If someone never returns for a second log in, then they never intended to play to begin with. They created an account for another reason, and more then likely for a friend, or for a promise made, not for their own want to find and play a MMORPG.


I was making an analysis asking people to register and try to play the game, where I wouldn't give them any advice and simply sit beside them and watch carefully what they do. They would also tell me what they like or dislike about the game, and I have also seen where are the weaknesses.

Most people have said that after registering they felt the game is very complicated, with a lot of text and many numbers which they didn't understand. Even though there was a tutorial, almost no one didn't even bother to open it. And most people were learning the game by first looking around the pages of the sidebar to have an overview of what is possible in the game and then by a simple trail and error. I believe this is a strong weakness of the game, having less than 10% of those who register keep playing.
Every game has to many numbers and alot of text the first day. There is not a single game that a complete noobie to MMORPGs would not say that about. I agree no one uses the tutorials, its a common problem with all games, coupled with the fact very very few tutorials are updated doesnt help. And looking over the sidebar and testing stuff is how I have learned every game I have played, but thats the fun part to me, right behind interacting with real people and not a machine. The very last statement I agree with, but after all the games I have played I have found very few who actually beat this mark. Look at SGW for an example. Presently there are 77,896 players total. Anything past rank 4K(and that is VERY conservative) are basicly dead accounts or feeder accounts. I know for a fact that 2 different time in my career in SGW that 30K "completely inactive" accounts were removed by the admin. I can not confirm that a removal was done before I started but I have been told so. That is 137,896 created accounts NOT including all deleted and there have been a signifigant amount of those. Now with a conservatively high number of 4K playing accounts versus a conservatively low number of 137,896 created accounts. You wil find that even tho SGW is considered a "successful" it still can not boast a 10% retainment claim.

My biggest question is "How" did all these accounts arrive here? What drew them? Because basicly if what ever it was, was not enough to entice them to make a 2nd log in, then that is a failure in the add campaign or what ever brought them here. If you make it so making an account nets you benifit somewhere else then you should not be suprised when no one logs in for the second time(not saying that is the case). What I'm trying to say is you have to discover why they created an account, before you can determine the true reason why they never logged in the second time.


At the same time, when I give them advice what to do, then much more people keep playing. Obviously it isn't possible to give personal advice when thousands of people register and I am looking for ways how to make the game easier to understand, also by looking what the most successful games have done.

The most successful games use one of more of these things:
-Ingame advice, which often highlights the place where you are suposed to do something. Often made in a way of miniquests with rewards.
-Short tutorial videos which introduce the game and teach basic steps
-Strong social interaction aspect of the game where players teach each other how to play.
I agree with the first part of point 1, but disagree with the second. You have 2 very different styles of games covered. They are very different and different in players. Some people prefer to play a "machine" and some people prefer to play real live people. MMORPGs have never within my veiw, successfully placed "mini quests" or "AI" driven actions that come out "fair" and not had them twisted and exploited by the players. I can't tell you how many I personally have been involved with. From the Ascended Super Weapon in SGW, the the Hero Battles of Battle realms/realm battles/LoTR, to the quadrant hopping in Ancient wars. Given enough time players can find the faults in any AI system put in place and exploit it.

Short tutorials are a great thing for "true" beginners. Those who have never played any MMORPGS. Anyone who has ever played one may or may not watch them as its human nature to poke and prod to discover things. Problem here is I played a game that made you go through a tutorial that took 20 minutes. Was a fantastic tutorial but many many people gave up half way through because by the end you were bored and upset at the time required just to open an account. Most people want to play for a week or so, then do the tutorials to see what they missed or to find the finer points and the formulas. I think the possible only true balance is to allow instant creation, but have a link appear on every log in afterwards that can be dismissed that takes you to the tutorial. Then when the player is ready he can go through the tutorial on his own time, and do it 1 section at a time. IDK thats just my suggestion.


This is the number 1 reason for games making it in my opinion and I could not agree more with this statement. The only thing I can add is that the presence of Admin should be in the game a forums as that is a major factor in retaining players, and GREAT communication between Admins and Players is another essencial.
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Re: New Players flood Aderan Wars

Post by kingkongfan1 on Sun Mar 13, 2011 3:26 pm

Spoiler:
Kenzu wrote:Like in all games, also on AW most of people who register don't come back to log in a second time. It's mainly because most of the players who register have never played a browser game before, they don't want to play a game which lasts more than one session, they consider the game too complicated, or they are simply too lazy to learn how to play a new game.

I was making an analysis asking people to register and try to play the game, where I wouldn't give them any advice and simply sit beside them and watch carefully what they do. They would also tell me what they like or dislike about the game, and I have also seen where are the weaknesses.

Most people have said that after registering they felt the game is very complicated, with a lot of text and many numbers which they didn't understand. Even though there was a tutorial, most didn't even bother to open it at all. And most people were learning the game by first looking around the pages of the sidebar to have an overview of what is possible in the game and then by a simple trail and error. I believe this is a strong weakness of the game, having less than 10% of those who register keep playing.

At the same time, when I give them advice what to do, then much more people keep playing. Obviously it isn't possible to give personal advice when thousands of people register and I am looking for ways how to make the game easier to understand, also by looking what the most successful games have done.

The most successful games use one of more of these things:
-Ingame advice, which often highlights the place where you are suposed to do something. Often made in a way of miniquests with rewards.
-Short tutorial videos which introduce the game and teach basic steps
-Strong social interaction aspect of the game where players teach each other how to play.

@Kenzu - I will not argue with you over what you say above, as I believe what you say about your analysis, but I have said before & I will say again is this... these types of games, AW especially, (cause I like it best) needs a way for players to come in, have a look around, get a feel for the game BEFORE having to register for the game... none of the games I have looked at do this, so I have registered with a few decided I did not like them & deleted my acct, or have never been back, of the 5 games I registered with, I still play 3, the other 2 I hate! (Evony would not let me delete my acct, had I known that before I registered I never would have registered in the first place,,, & SGW probably the most boring game on the web, it is slower than AW, build & ascend thats it, I am permenantly vacated there & have no plans of going back)... there are plenty of others I would like to check out, but not being able to without first having to register just turns me off to the game right off the bat, I want to go to a game, look around get a feel of who plays the game, how the game is played, etc.etc. without having to register first, If Admin could figure out how to do that, there would be a lot more players staying with the game...JMO... btw on the complicated "feel" of the game, My, (at the time) 10 year old daughter had AW figured out, & understood how to play in less than 1 hour... so it is like you say the players do not want check out the rules section or the tutorial or any of that, they just want click through the pages & say "this is to complicated" or "I don't understand", & to that I say, do we really want that type of player playing AW? I mean really?... again JMO...


Last edited by kingkongfan1 on Sun Mar 13, 2011 3:34 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : boo boo in the code,,, lol)
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Re: New Players flood Aderan Wars

Post by Mystake on Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:43 pm


Well you have to take into consideration alot mote then just 1 aspect. What other aspects of the "other" game is there? I mean if you compare it to SGW you will see a major difference in the fact there is NO limitation to the amount of $$ you can spend in SGW and the game is set up to be more of a $$ mule drawing in large sums of $$ from the ingame BM. This game is much different in that it limits you in both bought and sold goods from BM and bought and sold goods player to player. Therefore the prices of SS can't and shouldnt be the same. You have to take everything into account, not a single aspect. (but let me also say the ability to get SS from ingame sacrifises is what drew me to SGW personally)



I completely agree. as the popularity grew, Jason added more ways for him to line his pockets with gold. Just saying, but those same methods are present here Smile

I don't think the $ limit is really all that relevant in this game except for the odd person who would actually spend more. Most ppl in SGW never even came close to the $ limit we have in this game here.

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Re: New Players flood Aderan Wars

Post by Nomad on Sun Mar 13, 2011 8:21 pm

Mystake wrote:

I don't think the $ limit is really all that relevant in this game except for the odd person who would actually spend more. Most ppl in SGW never even came close to the $ limit we have in this game here.

I respectfully disagree,,,, but do not dismiss your point. I just think a large number of people would break the limits put in place by AW policies. And of the active playerbase a rather signifigant percentage.
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Re: New Players flood Aderan Wars

Post by Mystake on Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:25 pm

VIP Donator Package Gives:
PERMANENT Player to Player trading ability (and consequent full Trade Broker AND Private Market function)
48 Hour temporary protection from all attacks on your realm (You cannot attack anyone in this time either)
15,000 Turns
825,000 Units
169,255,995,000 Kuwal
15 Market Reserves
Unlimited Name Changes
2 Personal Bonus Changes (You cannot change your personal bonus more than once every 2 months)
150% Bank Increase (150% increase in natural bank size)



it's hardly worth ever spending more than 100$ on the game. Like, hardly. Matter of fact, what you get for 100$ is laughable.

what you get for every donation level is laughable, actually.

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Re: New Players flood Aderan Wars

Post by Nomad on Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:41 pm

in comparison to what?

seems its all relative to me.
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Re: New Players flood Aderan Wars

Post by Kenzu on Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:57 am

Mystake wrote:VIP Donator Package Gives:
PERMANENT Player to Player trading ability (and consequent full Trade Broker AND Private Market function)
48 Hour temporary protection from all attacks on your realm (You cannot attack anyone in this time either)
15,000 Turns
825,000 Units
169,255,995,000 Kuwal
15 Market Reserves
Unlimited Name Changes
2 Personal Bonus Changes (You cannot change your personal bonus more than once every 2 months)
150% Bank Increase (150% increase in natural bank size)



it's hardly worth ever spending more than 100$ on the game. Like, hardly. Matter of fact, what you get for 100$ is laughable.

what you get for every donation level is laughable, actually.

It depends on how much money you earn per month.

If someone still goes to school, and gets only pocket money. Spending 100$ for a game might be too much for him.

But if someone has a job and say 2000$ disposable income each month, he likes this game and plays it for months already, then he pay the 100$ for the VIP status.
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Re: New Players flood Aderan Wars

Post by Mystake on Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:50 am

ya but srsly how many ppl do u get that do that?


jason made his money in SGW by having ppl come back and play it. it's in the advertising. the SS packages were a nice bonus but that wasn't his principle source of income. It was the more ppl playing, the more he made on ads.

and quite frankly, the more ppl who played the more SS were bought, lol.

i seriously believe the SS system in this game is one of the turn off factors for many people, if not it was at least one of the turn ons for SGW that ppl liked about it.

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Re: New Players flood Aderan Wars

Post by Kenzu on Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:04 am

Mystake wrote:ya but srsly how many ppl do u get that do that?


jason made his money in SGW by having ppl come back and play it. it's in the advertising. the SS packages were a nice bonus but that wasn't his principle source of income. It was the more ppl playing, the more he made on ads.

and quite frankly, the more ppl who played the more SS were bought, lol.

i seriously believe the SS system in this game is one of the turn off factors for many people, if not it was at least one of the turn ons for SGW that ppl liked about it.

When I played sgw I remember there was no advertising at all, most money poured from SS and the other things you could buy. If I remember right there were some people spending 20$ each week to buy additional protections so that they can be permanently protected. Now that's not something good.

I'd also like to add that if you get VIP you not only get permanent SS but also a ton of resources.

15,000 Turns
825,000 Units
170,970,930,000 Kuwal
15 Market Reserves

You might be thinking that's not much, compared to biggest players, but the biggest players have worked hard to get where they have gotten, and if you use the VIP package wisely then it offers you a neat start if you are just starting the game.

With 15 market reserves you can get 1500 AT. You will have 16.500 which you can use for raiding. You raid 2.000 per hit minimum. That's 3.3 million population you can raid.
This means you will have 4.125.000 uu.

Spend 20.625.000.000 kuwal on training them into farmers. And the rest of 150.345.930.000 kuwal on UP.

You can boost your income from 150.000 kuwal per turn and UP from 1 per day to
41.250.000 kuwal per turn and UP to

This is how your account looked before:
population: 3.040
income: 150.000
UP: 1


This is how your account looks with VIP if you use AT to raid:
population: 4.128.030
income: 206.250.000
UP: 17.339


It's a very good start if you ask me. the AT you get are always the more valuable than the kuwal or uu you get. They are cheaper, because people who trade on GM attribute a lower value to AT, since effort must be made in order to get kuwal or uu, which themselves produce value if used to train farmers or increase up.
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Re: New Players flood Aderan Wars

Post by seaborgium on Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:19 am

SW hasn't allowed you to be on perm protection since long before I started playing and that was 3 years ago :O WTF have I done with my life.
*wonders off to the shame corner* Embarassed

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Re: New Players flood Aderan Wars

Post by Nomad on Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:42 am

@ Mystake,,

I have never seen any
SGW advertising other then voting links just as this game does, only this game is much more forceful about trying to get you to vote which I think is a real shame but thats another story. I agree the more players, the more SS bought,,,, but I still say that presently SS is not his $$ maker,,,, and this game specificly put a $$ limit on you to stop the downfalls of games such as SGW (unlimited resources/no $$ limit)

@ Kenzu,,,,
Very few people spend 100$ when they "start" playing a game. They will play for a signifigant amount of time before making an investment. Also seeing you can make all/some/or more then your investment back if you leave is a crucial point.

@ Seaborgium,,,,
I been there since March of 05,,,,, how you think I feel?
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Re: New Players flood Aderan Wars

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