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vacationed players

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Nomad
seaborgium
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Post by seaborgium Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:10 am

Could you move vacationed players to the end of the alliance list, as some alliance are getting close to having a first page full of them.
So you have to go to the bottom of the list or 2nd page to find there actives.

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Post by Nomad Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:33 pm

Or better yet, remove them from the count and stop them from adding to alliance power, and stop them from giving CO/OFF bonuses. would be even better, you know, like it should be.
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hy·poc·ri·sy
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–noun, plural -sies.

1. a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess.
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Post by kingkongfan1 Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:40 pm

I agree, thank you...
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Post by seaborgium Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:30 pm

Nomad wrote:Or better yet, remove them from the count and stop them from adding to alliance power, and stop them from giving CO/OFF bonuses. would be even better, you know, like it should be.

They don't count to alliance power. I agree they shouldn't do co/off bonuses.
I know they add to alliance army size, and member count.
I think they should be listed in an alliance, just not showing at the top of the list.

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Post by Kenzu Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:36 pm

I agree with seaborgium that they should be at the end of the list.

btw vacationed players dont add any power.

Currently they are treated in a way similar to deleted players or banned players, I rather see them in rankings, still with a total power of 0 and with a text "on vacation", just like other player have "on protection" next to their names.

I think it could be easily solved by having all players with a rank 0 automatically be given a rank of 99.999, or if possible calculate their ranks after other ranks have been calculated by simply adding them after the last player.
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Post by Paladius Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:23 pm

Since vacationed player's total power gets reduced to zero, i think it's only fair to reduce their population to zero until they are off of vacation.
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Post by seaborgium Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:48 am

depending on how you look at it

They count towards ranks as their EXP count, there army size counts.
If you look at other pages they are also listed.

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Post by Manleva Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:04 am

Paladius wrote:Since vacationed player's total power gets reduced to zero, i think it's only fair to reduce their population to zero until they are off of vacation.

I can see the sense in having them displayed at the bottom of the Alliance Listing but I see no sense in not displaying both their power and army size.

Note I said Displaying not including them for ranking purposes. I think that it's nice to know that there are potentially powerful players who may return from vacation and enter into a war.
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Post by Nomad Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:17 am

Manleva wrote:
Paladius wrote:Since vacationed player's total power gets reduced to zero, i think it's only fair to reduce their population to zero until they are off of vacation.

I can see the sense in having them displayed at the bottom of the Alliance Listing but I see no sense in not displaying both their power and army size.

Note I said Displaying not including them for ranking purposes. I think that it's nice to know that there are potentially powerful players who may return from vacation and enter into a war.


Thats all we want, just remove them from adding ANY contribution, not EXP, not size, not even member count. Then move them to the bottom of the list. I do agree with being able to see a players "last whereabouts" so you can be aware they may return at some/any point in time.
Nomad
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hy·poc·ri·sy
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–noun, plural -sies.

1. a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess.
2. the practice of professing standards, beliefs, etc, contrary to one's real character or actual behavior, esp the pretense of virtue and piety
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Post by Kenzu Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:18 pm

And I think they should influence everything, population, war exp, member count and also total power.

Afterall a player still has the power and at any point in time when he comes back he will have it.

That's why I say, either don't change their contributions, or make power be also counted.

Since they worked hard to achieve their population and power, it doesn't make sense not to count it, only because they are away.
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Post by Nomad Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:31 pm

Can they attack? Can they defend? Can they be attacked? Can any outside force effect their stats?


Then they are nothing but a prop for alliances giving them undeserved boosts.


jmo.
Nomad
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Hipocracy
hy·poc·ri·sy
Show Spelled[hi-pok-ruh-see]
–noun, plural -sies.

1. a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess.
2. the practice of professing standards, beliefs, etc, contrary to one's real character or actual behavior, esp the pretense of virtue and piety
3. a pretense of having some desirable or publicly approved attitude.

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Post by Kenzu Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:08 pm

Nomad wrote:Can they attack? Can they defend? Can they be attacked? Can any outside force effect their stats?


Then they are nothing but a prop for alliances giving them undeserved boosts.


jmo.

It isn't an underserved boost, if these players were active before to reach them.
Also, vacationed players don't grow, so no matter how much boost they give, if they don't come back, the boost they give will soon become marginal.

Also, some vacationed players can be called to battle, if you can reach them through other means such as facebook or through msn. So it isn't like they don't exist anymore.
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Post by kingkongfan1 Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:33 pm

Kenzu wrote:
Nomad wrote:Can they attack? Can they defend? Can they be attacked? Can any outside force effect their stats?


Then they are nothing but a prop for alliances giving them undeserved boosts.


jmo.

It isn't an underserved boost, if these players were active before to reach them.
Also, vacationed players don't grow, so no matter how much boost they give, if they don't come back, the boost they give will soon become marginal.

Also, some vacationed players can be called to battle, if you can reach them through other means such as facebook or through msn. So it isn't like they don't exist anymore.

there are "players" in this game who have been on "vacation" in this game for longer than I have been playing AW (318 days+). I consider these accounts abandoned for whatever reason, therefore any benefit an alliance should/would get from these abandoned accounts; needs to become null/void, as I believe that only active players should contribute to any alliances stats period... ( a 2 week vacation = ok, 30 day vacation = ok, anyone on vacation more than 6 months, should be removed, or make it so that they do not contribute to any stats)...
kingkongfan1
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Post by Paladius Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:06 pm

kingkongfan1 wrote:
Kenzu wrote:
Nomad wrote:Can they attack? Can they defend? Can they be attacked? Can any outside force effect their stats?


Then they are nothing but a prop for alliances giving them undeserved boosts.


jmo.

It isn't an underserved boost, if these players were active before to reach them.
Also, vacationed players don't grow, so no matter how much boost they give, if they don't come back, the boost they give will soon become marginal.

Also, some vacationed players can be called to battle, if you can reach them through other means such as facebook or through msn. So it isn't like they don't exist anymore.

there are "players" in this game who have been on "vacation" in this game for longer than I have been playing AW (318 days+). I consider these accounts abandoned for whatever reason, therefore any benefit an alliance should/would get from these abandoned accounts; needs to become null/void, as I believe that only active players should contribute to any alliances stats period... ( a 2 week vacation = ok, 30 day vacation = ok, anyone on vacation more than 6 months, should be removed, or make it so that they do not contribute to any stats)...
I agree with you and nomad 100%
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Post by Manleva Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:16 pm

Yes, Nomad, Kingkongfan1 and Paladius, you do make valid points concerning inactives on Vac Mode. However I am more concerned in knowing about Actives on Vac Mode as they can have a major bearing on situations when they return.

Automatically dropping inactives on Vac Mode is a good idea as it removes the trees so that you can see the forest, it's just the time frame that is the issue here.

Hows this for a suggestion

When going on Vac Mode normally a player will retain their alliance membership for 6 weeks (42 Days) after which they are automatically dropped.

To allow for longer vacation periods a player can set a returning date for up to a maximum of 3 months which will keep their alliance membership intact. (note, they can still return earlier) If they do not return by the specified then they are dropped from the alliance.

Vac Mode players have their rank set at 999,999,999 so that they only appear at the end of the alliance pages. Their stats are displayed the same as every other alliance member but are not included when calculation the Alliance's Ranking.
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Post by kingkongfan1 Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:47 pm

Manleva wrote:Yes, Nomad, Kingkongfan1 and Paladius, you do make valid points concerning inactives on Vac Mode. However I am more concerned in knowing about Actives on Vac Mode as they can have a major bearing on situations when they return.

Automatically dropping inactives on Vac Mode is a good idea as it removes the trees so that you can see the forest, it's just the time frame that is the issue here.

Hows this for a suggestion

When going on Vac Mode normally a player will retain their alliance membership for 6 weeks (42 Days) after which they are automatically dropped.

To allow for longer vacation periods a player can set a returning date for up to a maximum of 3 months which will keep their alliance membership intact. (note, they can still return earlier) If they do not return by the specified then they are dropped from the alliance.

Vac Mode players have their rank set at 999,999,999 so that they only appear at the end of the alliance pages. Their stats are displayed the same as every other alliance member but are not included when calculation the Alliance's Ranking.

I like this idea, was thinking along the same lines, also if a player on an extended vacation gets booted from said players alliance, once returning to the game, the player can rejoin the alliance...
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Post by Nomad Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:56 pm

I dont care about booting players or keeping them really. Its the fact they add to the alliance in some form or fashion when they should not be doing so. Period.
Nomad
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hy·poc·ri·sy
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–noun, plural -sies.

1. a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess.
2. the practice of professing standards, beliefs, etc, contrary to one's real character or actual behavior, esp the pretense of virtue and piety
3. a pretense of having some desirable or publicly approved attitude.

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Post by kingkongfan1 Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:03 am

Nomad wrote:I dont care about booting players or keeping them really. Its the fact they add to the alliance in some form or fashion when they should not be doing so. Period.

Well I agree 100%,,, was just trying to propose alternatives to those players that may have different thoughts about this subject than you or I...
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Post by Manleva Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:12 am

I think we may be talking at cross purposes here because we are discussing to completly seperate things in this thread.

Seaborgium origionally asked for an alteration to the Alliance Membership pages so that members on Vacation were displayed at the end rather than at the beginning.

Nomad then poped in requesting that players on vacation be removed from the count and stop them from adding to the Alliances Power. This relates to information that is seen on the Alliance Ranking Page.

From there we have had quite a bit of discussion but from what I can see everyone appears to be in agreement with both of the suggestions as listed below.

1. Players on Vacation should not contribute to the alliances power and should not provide any Commander / Officer bonuses

2. Players on Vacation should be listed at the end of the Alliance membership page

A lot of the discussion has been caused because there appears to be a considerable number of Players in Alliances that are not actually on Vacation bus are actually now inactive.

In my opinion the Alliance page should provide the information that it currently does about all of the public alliances
I.e. Rank, Name, Leader, Total Power, Total War Experience and Size.

And the Alliance Membership pages should display all Alliance Members, both active and those on vacation.

All of this information is important for new players who are looking into joining an Alliance.

What I think is required is a way of removing those players who are on vacation but have become inactive while leaving behind the active vacationers (I.e. those that have actually gone on holiday with the family, gone into hospital, are studing for exams etc. and will soon return)

There's two ways to acheive this, one is by having Admin code something that will drop inactive accounts from alliances and the other is for Alliance leadership to actually remove the inactive players themselves. If Admin codes it then it is going to be arbitary and it will be unable to take into account ane extenuating circumstances, while if left up to Alliance leadership then we are reliant on the good will and sportsmanship of those people.

Personally I am happy for the active vacationers stats to add to the overall alliance stats and I'm not really interested in seeing those stats change just because Biil takes his wife and kids to Disneyland for a two week vacation but i definatly don't want the alliances stats to include someone who's not played for six months or more.

Nomad wrote:I dont care about booting players or keeping them really. Its the fact they add to the alliance in some form or fashion when they should not be doing so. Period.
@ Nomad - while I agree as far as stats go, showing long term vacationers as members of an alliance does in fact say a lot about the alliance and it's leadership
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Post by Kenzu Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:35 pm

Manleva wrote:Yes, Nomad, Kingkongfan1 and Paladius, you do make valid points concerning inactives on Vac Mode. However I am more concerned in knowing about Actives on Vac Mode as they can have a major bearing on situations when they return.

Automatically dropping inactives on Vac Mode is a good idea as it removes the trees so that you can see the forest, it's just the time frame that is the issue here.

Hows this for a suggestion

When going on Vac Mode normally a player will retain their alliance membership for 6 weeks (42 Days) after which they are automatically dropped.

To allow for longer vacation periods a player can set a returning date for up to a maximum of 3 months which will keep their alliance membership intact. (note, they can still return earlier) If they do not return by the specified then they are dropped from the alliance.

Vac Mode players have their rank set at 999,999,999 so that they only appear at the end of the alliance pages. Their stats are displayed the same as every other alliance member but are not included when calculation the Alliance's Ranking.

I like your suggestion.

I wouldn't mind if players on vacation get kicked from the alliance automatically after say 3 months, however only and only if I will be able to see them somewhere on the battlefield page.

Manleva wrote:...
In my opinion the Alliance page should provide the information that it currently does about all of the public alliances
I.e. Rank, Name, Leader, Total Power, Total War Experience and Size.
...

I like your suggestion.
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Post by Nomad Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:42 pm

I said I do not really want anyone removed, but its total BS that an alliance can maitain a rank based solely on the 20 to 30% of completely vacationed accounts within it.

Under Kenzu's logic that "they can return" at any time mean every alliance should have the power of EVERY memeber who has ever been in it, because afterall "they might return at any time".

I do think vacated accounts should stay visible to the public, Im not for nor against automatic booting as I do not care.

What I am against is proping up weak alliances with 50% of it membership inactive or vacated. Now the difference I see between inactive and vacated is the fact a inactive account you CAN effect, by massing and farming. You gain resources and the inactive loses military might and size. A vacated account can not be effected in any manner.

As it stands right now Every member of TIE could vacate except 1, lets say Ian. Your telling me that a 1 man alliance should hold rank 1 based soley on what vacationed accounts "could" do? Hell he could be massed to 0 stats and still maintain a high rank in the alliances. You think a 1 man massed with 0 stats alliance should be able to hold a high rank based sole on what the vacationed players "might" do?


I don't, but thats JMO. Its admins game and he will do what he thinks best.
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hy·poc·ri·sy
Show Spelled[hi-pok-ruh-see]
–noun, plural -sies.

1. a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess.
2. the practice of professing standards, beliefs, etc, contrary to one's real character or actual behavior, esp the pretense of virtue and piety
3. a pretense of having some desirable or publicly approved attitude.

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Post by kingkongfan1 Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:46 pm

Kenzu wrote:I wouldn't mind if players on vacation get kicked from the alliance automatically after say 3 months, however only and only if I will be able to see them somewhere on the battlefield page.

I can agree with this statement...
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Post by Nomad Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:49 pm

kingkongfan1 wrote:
Kenzu wrote:I wouldn't mind if players on vacation get kicked from the alliance automatically after say 3 months, however only and only if I will be able to see them somewhere on the battlefield page.

I can agree with this statement...

just make them like vacated accounts on ascended, instead od having a coffee break, have them with a tag saying "True wearabouts unknown" Or Last seen here" Or "Returning soon" but leave them in the ranking attack pages.
Nomad
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ID : WORD OF THE DAY
Hipocracy
hy·poc·ri·sy
Show Spelled[hi-pok-ruh-see]
–noun, plural -sies.

1. a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess.
2. the practice of professing standards, beliefs, etc, contrary to one's real character or actual behavior, esp the pretense of virtue and piety
3. a pretense of having some desirable or publicly approved attitude.

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Location : Everywhere and nowhere at all.
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Post by Manleva Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:01 pm

Sorry kenzu but I think that a 3 month period is way to long.

How about this Vacation Mode will retain alliance membership for up to 6 weeks. A vacationing player not returning within this time period is automatically dropped from the alliance.

In addition Vacationed players also automatically come out of Vacation mode after 6 months and are treated like any other inactive account.

Players who wish to take more than a 6 month sabbatical from the game can contact Admin and put their case forward. If they are successful then Admin can set a return date. The player will then stay in Vacation Mode until this date but will immediately be removed from any alliance.

To assist in showing Vacationed players with both an applicable status an rank I would suggest the following. Make the Rank field Alpha Numeric and assign a rank of VM to vacationing players. This both identifies them as being on Vacation and automatically places them at the end of any lists that are sorted on the Rank Field
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Post by kingkongfan1 Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:09 pm

Manleva wrote:In addition Vacationed players also automatically come out of Vacation mode after 6 months and are treated like any other inactive account.

I had thought of that as well, but figured that there would be to much opposition for the Idea to work... glad you posted the idea...
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