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Post by Kenzu Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:07 pm

I got no difficulties.

The only reason why problems are caused is that there is no official name for what people call the reset server.
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Post by Kenzu Sat Oct 16, 2010 1:24 am

Ok, so let's call it Aderan Wars Reset then, and not simply reset server.
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Post by kingkongfan1 Sat Oct 16, 2010 1:49 am

Kenzu wrote:Ok, so let's call it Aderan Wars Reset then, and not simply reset server.

Hey Kenzu,,, that IS what those of us who have played/are having discussions about it, call it, its about time you caught up with the rest of us...

BTW - Here's Your Sign... LMAO!!!

& you wonder why I am not gonna play your game...
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Post by Kenzu Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:47 am

all accounts start with same stats and everyone can farm and raid the inactives as they please, since they will be generating some income and uu.
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Post by Nomad Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:50 am

well atleast there will be plenty of inactive farms.

TY for the reply
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Post by Nomad Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:08 pm

Does AE exist on AWII? if so does it work just like main? And if so, will that not kill the race bonus for the income race?
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Post by Kenzu Sat Oct 16, 2010 5:48 pm

Nomad wrote:Does AE exist on AWII? if so does it work just like main? And if so, will that not kill the race bonus for the income race?

AE is calculated based on your population and average population.

There are only 2 changes to AE, one of them that if average population is smaller than 1.000.000, then AE will be calculated as if average population is 1.000.000.
The 2nd one is that all players who logged are counted, not only the middle 50%.

(Starting population is 90.000)

If you have AE of say 50%, and an income bonus of 6%, then obviously you will not get 106% income, but 53%, which means that you are still 6% better off than someone with the same account without income bonus. Afterall 53 is 6% higher than 50.
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Post by Nomad Sat Oct 16, 2010 6:54 pm

Kenzu wrote:
Nomad wrote:Does AE exist on AWII? if so does it work just like main? And if so, will that not kill the race bonus for the income race?

AE is calculated based on your population and average population.

There are only 2 changes to AE, one of them that if average population is smaller than 1.000.000, then AE will be calculated as if average population is 1.000.000.
The 2nd one is that all players who logged are counted, not only the middle 50%.

(Starting population is 90.000)

If you have AE of say 50%, and an income bonus of 6%, then obviously you will not get 106% income, but 53%, which means that you are still 6% better off than someone with the same account without income bonus. Afterall 53 is 6% higher than 50.

Yes, but it also means that the income based race suffers a penalty that NO other race will suffer.

Daning will not suffer for having a strike to big, or miyara will not suffer from having a def to big, but the income race WILL suffer a penalty for having a population to big.

I'm not saying its good nor bad, just saying it needs to be recognized and possibly consider an adjustment


  • +1.50% attack power
  • +1.50% defense power
  • +1.75% assassin power
  • +2.00% covert power
  • +0.40% income <-----------------This is the only bonus that will even be effected.
  • +0.40% unit production
Maybe the income bonus should be a bit higher to offset the losses that will arise in time. In a reset envirnment it wouldn't be that much of an issue, but when AWII goes non reset I think it will have the same effect as it has in main, no one will use it as its such a small boost that it basicly useless. Because in time you will see 30% AE's in AW just like there is in main.
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Post by Manleva Sat Oct 16, 2010 8:18 pm

The more I read about AWII the less appealing I find it. In many ways it sounds like it's design is more about protecting the players account to the degree that the protection will mean that those that start the game early will have a massive advantage over players who come along later on.

Not being able to Kill off income units means that recovery from wars will be based around the size of your income.

A player who invests in income units first before military will apparently have a major long term advantage especially if they have SS and can trade for UU. Even AE will help them because the killing of only military units only will increase income.
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Post by Nomad Sat Oct 16, 2010 10:22 pm

Well I see it differently actually.


Bigger accounts are the one who will suffer more. A 1 month old account will be able to come into AWII and mass the rank 1 account that 1 yr plus with no problems. Remeber what was said, "Worst case senerio" is you lose 2 times as much as you kill. So someone with 100K strikers can kill another persons 200K defender no matter what.

Looks to me the game is based around the ability to war at almost any point in time, with a very short recovery time. Remember the death rate? 1%? well the lower you get massed, the higher your UP becomes.

I see this close to what SGW is now, a clicker where massing will be cheap and easy.

The reason bigger accounts with alot of income are at a disadvantage is that any defense can be taken more easily, so a bigger income just means your a better farm.


IDK, guess we will see in the 1 week trial.

edit

A player who invests in income units first before military willapparently have a major long term advantage especially if they have SSand can trade for UU. Even AE will help them because the killing ofonly military units only will increase income.

I think it will be the other way around, i think military is the way to go as farming will be easier with fewer losses and you have less fear of being attacked for farming as the "effect" is very short lived. Its always been my experiance you can take more then you can ever make.
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Post by Kenzu Sun Oct 17, 2010 1:47 am

Manleva wrote:The more I read about AWII the less appealing I find it. In many ways it sounds like it's design is more about protecting the players account to the degree that the protection will mean that those that start the game early will have a massive advantage over players who come along later on.

Not being able to Kill off income units means that recovery from wars will be based around the size of your income.

A player who invests in income units first before military will apparently have a major long term advantage especially if they have SS and can trade for UU. Even AE will help them because the killing of only military units only will increase income.

If someone invests too much into income units, he will get farmed constantly. Remember in Red Apocalypse you can't prevent someone from farming you by being active, you must have proper defenses.

You can only win if you find the right balance between income units and military units.

Nomad wrote:
Kenzu wrote:
Nomad wrote:Does AE exist on AWII? if so does it work just like main? And if so, will that not kill the race bonus for the income race?

AE is calculated based on your population and average population.

There are only 2 changes to AE, one of them that if average population is smaller than 1.000.000, then AE will be calculated as if average population is 1.000.000.
The 2nd one is that all players who logged are counted, not only the middle 50%.

(Starting population is 90.000)

If you have AE of say 50%, and an income bonus of 6%, then obviously you will not get 106% income, but 53%, which means that you are still 6% better off than someone with the same account without income bonus. Afterall 53 is 6% higher than 50.

Yes, but it also means that the income based race suffers a penalty that NO other race will suffer.

Daning will not suffer for having a strike to big, or miyara will not suffer from having a def to big, but the income race WILL suffer a penalty for having a population to big.

I'm not saying its good nor bad, just saying it needs to be recognized and possibly consider an adjustment


  • +1.50% attack power
  • +1.50% defense power
  • +1.75% assassin power
  • +2.00% covert power
  • +0.40% income <-----------------This is the only bonus that will even be effected.
  • +0.40% unit production
Maybe the income bonus should be a bit higher to offset the losses that will arise in time. In a reset envirnment it wouldn't be that much of an issue, but when AWII goes non reset I think it will have the same effect as it has in main, no one will use it as its such a small boost that it basicly useless. Because in time you will see 30% AE's in AW just like there is in main.

Then I guess I should take the income ones to prove they are not weak. What do you think?[/quote]


Last edited by Kenzu on Sun Oct 17, 2010 1:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Nomad Sun Oct 17, 2010 2:15 am

you can if you want, it wont prove anything either way until AE actually kicks in, but you could atleast acknowedge the fact the issue exists and is unique to the income race.
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Post by Kenzu Sun Oct 17, 2010 10:19 am

Nomad wrote:you can if you want, it wont prove anything either way until AE actually kicks in, but you could atleast acknowedge the fact the issue exists and is unique to the income race.

Lets assume there are 2 people who have a population of 2 million
both have AE of 50%

one has 30 points in attack +45%
and the other one has 30 points in income +12%

Please tell me how is the income race at a disadvantage?



I personally don't think income race gets affected at all, but population race (Tarik) does get affected, because by increasing population, they will have lower AE earlier.
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Post by Nomad Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:25 pm

Kenzu wrote:
Nomad wrote:you can if you want, it wont prove anything either way until AE actually kicks in, but you could atleast acknowedge the fact the issue exists and is unique to the income race.

Lets assume there are 2 people who have a population of 2 million
both have AE of 50%

one has 30 points in attack +45%
and the other one has 30 points in income +12%

Please tell me how is the income race at a disadvantage?



I personally don't think income race gets affected at all, but population race (Tarik) does get affected, because by increasing population, they will have lower AE earlier.

The bold part I do generally agree with. You are correct that may very well happen. It depends on the player, as if they war often they may never see the AE kick in, but under normal conditions the UP race should hit AE first.

The reason I say the income race is at a disadvantage is this.

They are the only race where they do not get 100% of their PBP increase for the life of their account. ALL other races will never see a decrease of benifit from their PBP.

look at the UP race and the Income race, both get 0.40% increase from 1 PBP, but at 50% AE the income race only gets 0.20% per PBP where the UP race still gets 0.40% per PBP.
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Post by Admin Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:35 pm

Nomad wrote:look at the UP race and the Income race, both get 0.40% increase from 1 PBP, but at 50% AE the income race only gets 0.20% per PBP where the UP race still gets 0.40% per PBP.
that's not really how multiplying several numbers works.

a 0.4% increase will always be a 0.4% increase.

If i have 100k farmers a 0.4% income boost and 50% ae. Income will be: 100,000 x 25 x 1.004 = 2,510,000
How many farmers does someone without the income boost have to have to reach the same income: 2,510,000 / 25 = 100,400

What a surprise 0.4% more units to reach the same income level. Not 0.2% more but 0.4% more
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Post by kingkongfan1 Sun Oct 17, 2010 1:04 pm

Spoiler:

Just for my understanding, I think that you have stated the part that is underlined in bold wrong,,,
If you have 100k strike, going against a 200k defender, & the strike loses twice as many as the defender, how can the strike take the defense? even at 2 to 1 losses the defense still has 150k left, & the strike has destroyed itself, what have I missed? also I tend to agree with manleva's statement...
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Post by Nomad Sun Oct 17, 2010 2:34 pm

Admin wrote:
Nomad wrote:look at the UP race and the Income race, both get 0.40% increase from 1 PBP, but at 50% AE the income race only gets 0.20% per PBP where the UP race still gets 0.40% per PBP.
that's not really how multiplying several numbers works.

a 0.4% increase will always be a 0.4% increase.

If i have 100k farmers a 0.4% income boost and 50% ae. Income will be: 100,000 x 25 x 1.004 = 2,510,000
How many farmers does someone without the income boost have to have to reach the same income: 2,510,000 / 25 = 100,400

What a surprise 0.4% more units to reach the same income level. Not 0.2% more but 0.4% more

We have already had this conversation Admin, and we agreed to disagree because you proved your point and I proved mine. INCOME IS EFFECTED BY AE CUTTING PBP%s.

you both still dodge the root of the question, just like last time. Why is only 1 race effected in this manner? Strikes never hit a decrease due to size, neither do defenses, covert units, nor assassins. The UP race has the exact same bonus %, but even they never suffer a decrease due to AE/size.

Either way its kenzu's call since its his game, I was just trying to point out something I thought might need adjusting. If you guys don't think so then so be it. I still find it funny that you pushed income bonuses on main, and still no one uses them, and your going to follow the same system and think its going to work in AWII? meh.
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Post by Kenzu Sun Oct 17, 2010 5:34 pm

kingkongfan1 wrote:
Spoiler:

Just for my understanding, I think that you have stated the part that is underlined in bold wrong,,,
If you have 100k strike, going against a 200k defender, & the strike loses twice as many as the defender, how can the strike take the defense? even at 2 to 1 losses the defense still has 150k left, & the strike has destroyed itself, what have I missed? also I tend to agree with manleva's statement...

You loose 2 times more than the defender either if you are making a farming mission, but if you want to mass you will go for the assault.
And in case of assault you can suffer 2 times more losses if your technology is lagging 100% behind. for example someone has 200% defense tech, and you have only 100% strike tech. Obviously you will lose 2 times more soldiers.

If you lose much more than the enemy, I recommend working on your techs before attacking again.

If you however have 200% strike and defender only 100% defense, then when you assault him and have say 100.000 troops and he has 200.000 troops, then you will kill 2 troops for each 1 you lose.
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Post by Nomad Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:34 pm

Kenzu wrote:
kingkongfan1 wrote:
Spoiler:

Just for my understanding, I think that you have stated the part that is underlined in bold wrong,,,
If you have 100k strike, going against a 200k defender, & the strike loses twice as many as the defender, how can the strike take the defense? even at 2 to 1 losses the defense still has 150k left, & the strike has destroyed itself, what have I missed? also I tend to agree with manleva's statement...

You loose 2 times more than the defender either if you are making a farming mission, but if you want to mass you will go for the assault.
And in case of assault you can suffer 2 times more losses if your technology is lagging 100% behind. for example someone has 200% defense tech, and you have only 100% strike tech. Obviously you will lose 2 times more soldiers.

If you lose much more than the enemy, I recommend working on your techs before attacking again.

If you however have 200% strike and defender only 100% defense, then when you assault him and have say 100.000 troops and he has 200.000 troops, then you will kill 2 troops for each 1 you lose.


The major down fall of this system is anyone can attack anyone, there is no way to actually "defend" yourself very well. If someone is set to harm you then they know already the worst they can do is lose twice as much as you, but they will still get you if they are willing to pay the cost. Course the same can be said from the other side, no matter how much more advanced, bigger, or straonger you are, the best you can hope for is to kill twice as much as you lose.
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Post by Kenzu Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:39 am

Nomad wrote:
Kenzu wrote:
kingkongfan1 wrote:
Spoiler:

Just for my understanding, I think that you have stated the part that is underlined in bold wrong,,,
If you have 100k strike, going against a 200k defender, & the strike loses twice as many as the defender, how can the strike take the defense? even at 2 to 1 losses the defense still has 150k left, & the strike has destroyed itself, what have I missed? also I tend to agree with manleva's statement...

You loose 2 times more than the defender either if you are making a farming mission, but if you want to mass you will go for the assault.
And in case of assault you can suffer 2 times more losses if your technology is lagging 100% behind. for example someone has 200% defense tech, and you have only 100% strike tech. Obviously you will lose 2 times more soldiers.

If you lose much more than the enemy, I recommend working on your techs before attacking again.

If you however have 200% strike and defender only 100% defense, then when you assault him and have say 100.000 troops and he has 200.000 troops, then you will kill 2 troops for each 1 you lose.


The major down fall of this system is anyone can attack anyone, there is no way to actually "defend" yourself very well. If someone is set to harm you then they know already the worst they can do is lose twice as much as you, but they will still get you if they are willing to pay the cost. Course the same can be said from the other side, no matter how much more advanced, bigger, or straonger you are, the best you can hope for is to kill twice as much as you lose.

That's true. I hope this will make the battles as promising as you make it sound. It's no good if people are afraid too lose a lot without destroying much, now everyone is encouraged to fight more.
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Post by Nomad Mon Oct 18, 2010 2:18 am

Kenzu wrote:

That's true. I hope this will make the battles as promising as you make it sound. It's no good if people are afraid too lose a lot without destroying much, now everyone is encouraged to fight more.


To bad you never played SGW very much. You might see the total downfall of this type of game. Tho it fills a nitch, some people like clickers and this should do well for those who like being able to attack anyone, anythime, with no fear, but it will get boring very fast to some, and those who dislike games you cant better yourself out of someone elses grasp,,, well this game just wont be for them. We will see in a years time I guess what people think of it then.


Still no clear ETA on release? other then "tomorrow"?
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Post by Kenzu Mon Oct 18, 2010 6:59 pm

Nomad wrote:
Kenzu wrote:

That's true. I hope this will make the battles as promising as you make it sound. It's no good if people are afraid too lose a lot without destroying much, now everyone is encouraged to fight more.


To bad you never played SGW very much. You might see the total downfall of this type of game. Tho it fills a nitch, some people like clickers and this should do well for those who like being able to attack anyone, anythime, with no fear, but it will get boring very fast to some, and those who dislike games you cant better yourself out of someone elses grasp,,, well this game just wont be for them. We will see in a years time I guess what people think of it then.


Still no clear ETA on release? other then "tomorrow"?

Actually I played sgw for a year.

But I don't understand what you mean. Why should this game get boring for some faster than some other game?

A precise time when it will be released can be given only if we add into our predictions a long period of reserve time, for things which we didn't expect, this means that to give a precise time when RA will be released we will have to announce a very late day, for example on 1st october we would announce that it will be released on 1st november so that we can be sure that it will be done by that time. But our goal is to start the round as soon as possible so that bugs can be located and fixed sooner and thus we can start the normal Red Apocalypse server sooner.
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Post by Nomad Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:27 pm

In SGW 1 man can hold an entire alliance for ransome.

You can not hurt anyone in SGW unless they let you.

You can literally mass for hours on end, and then still be in the same shape as when you started in less then 1 hr.

Defenses are useless and a waste of time as you can not stop someone from taking it down, no matter how you build your account.

SGW suffers a bad problem with "sniper" or "1 hit wonder" accounts.


But lets just get to testing it.
Nomad
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ID : WORD OF THE DAY
Hipocracy
hy·poc·ri·sy
Show Spelled[hi-pok-ruh-see]
–noun, plural -sies.

1. a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess.
2. the practice of professing standards, beliefs, etc, contrary to one's real character or actual behavior, esp the pretense of virtue and piety
3. a pretense of having some desirable or publicly approved attitude.

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Post by Kenzu Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:18 am

I know what you mean, and that's the main reason I left the game. I realised massing is extremely cheap and defenses are practically useless and after

Obviously first I played normally, in an alliance, but then after being dragged into wars a couple of times and seing that an alliance cannot provide enough protection, because massing is ridiculously cheap, I became a lone wolf and everything went fine for a couple months.

However, one day there was some problem, I think he took one of my planets. And when I asked to have it back he massed me saying that I threatened him. And then I massed him, and after some time got massed again, this time by his alliance. After checking what has been lost and what destroyed I realised that although defense provides some protection (especially if your planet protection is extremely high), but as soon as your enemy is able to bring comparable forces to match yours you will lose a multiple of what he loses.

I thus declared a war on their empire and kept massing them without building much. I still remember that after each time I got massed, all I had to do is to farm and raid for a couple hours and I had massive forces to mass a couple of their account. I also remember that I dumbed loads of kuwal into my mothership and fleets and specialised on destroying enemy motherships, destroying planets with biggest defenses and abandoning them so that they can't take them from me. Some people kept sending me loads of resources to mass them, because their empire had a lot of enemies, and I remember there were also a couple others 1 man armies fighting against their empire successfully.

After almost a month I got bored of it, build up my account and sold it.

Afterwards I tried many games, and most of them are similar to sgw. Prblem is they all seem to use the same code, becomming more efficient if you have a bigger army, but efficiency should solely depend on your technology, not the number of your troops. The number of your troops should decide how much damage you deal.

-------------------------------------------------------

I did some farming and realised an unintended problem. Farming is extremely profitable and losses can't match the profits at all.

I am able to steal 200 million and lose roughly 100 units.

UU price is 200k (because 1 farmer produces 100 per turn)
train price 50k
weapon price 50k
=>300k per unit

so only 30.000.000 losses and 200.000.000 profit,

I will have to increase the losses, train and weapon costs and lower income per income unit to balancing it out.

A Farmfest is unintended and will not exist in RA.
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Post by J1nx Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:51 am

iv got a question that may have been answered already but i cant find it on the forums... the income units... workers, graduates and experts: they all give the same income but have varying costs, why is that? (there arnt descriptions when hovering the mouse over the name)

Also: the cash on hand (highlighted in yellow)... how come i cant spend that? i have 300kk on hand and did an upgrade worth 20kk and it said i didnt have enough :/

J1nx
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