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Mujengan Trial Compensation policy

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Post by Lord Ishurue Sun Sep 05, 2010 4:14 pm

Mujengan Trial Breach Compensation policy

Breech Compensation

1. All breeches made by Mujengan members & Mujengan members making breeches must be reported with in 72 hours ( 3 days ) in order to get FULL Compensation & 30% Fine .

2. Breeches Will fall under the below guidelines .

1st-3rd day 130% compensation
4th day . 100% compensation
5th day . 70% Compensation
6th day . 40% compensation
7th day . 10% compensation
8th day+ . No compensation will be given .


Reasons for this policy .
1. Prevent players to use breeches as a 2nd bank
2. With the new transfer ratio , If a player is in a negative % , and they owe an excessively high amount of kuwal, due to the victim decided to wait 2 weeks . In a way it can be considered hostile. Such as hoping the game bans them .


Reporting a breech .
When contacting Mujengan about breeches please inform the Mujengan member and forward the PM to Lord_Ishurue ID 1453 or LurantMaximus ID 1849 .

We prefer if your alliance 1IC, 2IC or Diplomat to avoid any confusing & to make the process much smoother . ( However we respect the kind of players who like doing things on their own . If your that kind of player , we ask you to please inform a member of your alliance HC who is in charge of breeches & the alike that you will take care of it . )

_______________________________________________________
Sample costing . With current UU cost of 175k

If a player has these weapon levels . Their cost of 1 armed super is .
9/ APC = 437k
10/ IFV = 509k
11/ Main Battle Tank = 633k
12/ Mobile Artillery = 847k


Last edited by Lord Ishurue on Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:43 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : correct selling of Mujengan)
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Post by SovietMan Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:08 am

I support this policy!

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Post by ian Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:51 pm

It should be noted The Imperium checks its logs once every week or so, and breaches not yet brought to our attention will therefore come to light and be reported then.

In such an event - if a breach was conducted earlier than 3 days before it is reported to the offending party, then the offending party will be given an opportunity to compensate the damages - as was agreed upon by the TOC/TIE peace treaty.

In the event the offending party refuses to compensate for whatever reason - including if they state this policy and argue the offence is longer than 3 days old before being reported - it *will* be a breach of the peace treaty - which will result in a termination of the treaty by The Imperium.

I m sure I don't have to point out 2 facts to Mujengen:

1.) There is no time-limit for breaches being reported included in the peace treaty - therefore any inclusion of such a time-limit should be with agreement from *ALL* signatories of the treaty - that being Emperors, World Republic, Mujengen and The Imperium.

2.) Myself and Lord Ishurue discussed this on msn several weeks/ a month ago - at which he was informed TIE only checks the logs once a week and thus *wouldn't* agree to a time-limit being imposed on when breaches have to be reported.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have no problem at all with this policy being applied to whoever you wish it to be applied to. During the original peace treaty discussions I stated my view the treaty should extend to only TIE/TOC relations, and should have no scope or influence in how either alliance/empire treats those who are not signatories to the treaty.

But I will have a problem in the event The Imperium reports a breach which is older than 3 days old, and Mujengen then applies this policy and refuses to compensate under the agreed-upon peace treaty.

If such an event occurs, The Imperium will terminate the peace treaty since it *would* have been breached by Mujengen.

So... In the event such a situation does occur, please be aware where The Imperium stands with regard to this policy.

Overall TIE has no problem with this policy being applied to non-Treaty Signatories (people who haven't signed the treaty). We do however expect the treaty to be followed in dealings between the parties who signed it - and for the agreed upon terms to take priority over all other policies a alliance may have implemented since it was signed for those dealings between the treaty signatories.

Regards

Ian - Imperium Senatorum Imperialis
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Post by Lord Ishurue Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:34 am



all of our discussion was unofficial .

we will enforce this policy server wide.

all players have to do when they get farmed is report the hit , not sit back and wait .

a player logs in every 24 hours. they get farmed . they send the hit to their squad leader or whoever . . maybe next day the squad leader calcs the hit to see if it was a violation .

The Trial Farm policy said all breeches are to be paid, it never said anything about a time limit being added or cant be added . . The peace treaty in fact was just a simple the war is over hostilities cease .

as per you trying to start an argument . well i aint gonna bother.


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Post by Special Agent 47 Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:50 am

There is no peace treaty, there has never been a peace treaty.

The war just ended without a single issue or point ever being resolved or concluded.
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Post by ian Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:08 pm

Its not arguiing. TOC & TIE agreed 130% of a breach would be paid back. Now your effectively saying 130% of the breach *may* be paid back provided you follow our policy.

If say... only 125% of the breach is paid back, thats not 130%, and its not what TIE & TOC agreed as part of the peace-agreement.

By all means *try* and enforce this policy on The Imperium - just don't be suprised at what The Imperium's response will be to such an attempt.
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Post by Kenzu Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:15 pm

A policy cannot be enforced by one alliance alone. All 3 alliance have to agree on it obviously.

It's not acceptable to get 30% less compensation on the 4th day, when we all agreed to pay 130%.

Maybe we can agree on some sort of compromise.

For example:
You have to request compensation within 10 days of the attack. You will receive 130% of the damage caused. After 10 days you can't ask for compensation anymore.
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Post by ian Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:46 pm

Kenzu wrote:A policy cannot be enforced by one alliance alone. All 3 alliance have to agree on it obviously.

It's not acceptable to get 30% less compensation on the 4th day, when we all agreed to pay 130%.

Maybe we can agree on some sort of compromise.

For example:
You have to request compensation within 10 days of the attack. You will receive 130% of the damage caused. After 10 days you can't ask for compensation anymore.

I think TIE could tolerate 7 days time-limit for a breach to be reported for 130% compensation to be paid, and then 3 more days on top of that for 100% compensation to be paid... after which the breach gets counted as not having happened.

That way its not really possible for a player to "bank" his breaches as LI seems to say.... since in all honesty - how many breaches will a player suffer over a 10 day period?... and if someone is repeatedly breaching to make having to all of a sudden repay their breaches over the last 10 days a major problem... then to be honest its the attackers fault for doing so many breaches, and they should be thankful the victim's alliance hasn't sort further forms of punishment other than a compensation & 30% fine
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Post by Kenzu Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:55 pm

ian wrote:
Kenzu wrote:A policy cannot be enforced by one alliance alone. All 3 alliance have to agree on it obviously.

It's not acceptable to get 30% less compensation on the 4th day, when we all agreed to pay 130%.

Maybe we can agree on some sort of compromise.

For example:
You have to request compensation within 10 days of the attack. You will receive 130% of the damage caused. After 10 days you can't ask for compensation anymore.

I think TIE could tolerate 7 days time-limit for a breach to be reported for 130% compensation to be paid, and then 3 more days on top of that for 100% compensation to be paid... after which the breach gets counted as not having happened.

That way its not really possible for a player to "bank" his breaches as LI seems to say.... since in all honesty - how many breaches will a player suffer over a 10 day period?... and if someone is repeatedly breaching to make having to all of a sudden repay their breaches over the last 10 days a major problem... then to be honest its the attackers fault for doing so many breaches, and they should be thankful the victim's alliance hasn't sort further forms of punishment other than a compensation & 30% fine

Sounds good to me.

How about you, Lord Ishurue?
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Post by ian Sun Sep 12, 2010 2:02 pm

Incase anyone is wondering why there is still no response from LI or Mujengen on the above, its because on the 8th of September he sent me a PM essentially saying we can discuss this thread with ingame PM's.

The last 4 days I ve been debating how best to respond & what would be appropriate... and I ve decided since the treaty involves:

- The Imperium
- World Republic
- Mujengen
- Emperors.

That a private ingame discussion between myself & Lord Ishurue would be inappropriate given by its definition it cuts out the following from the discussion:

- World Republic
- Emperors

As well as:

- World Republic's Members
- Emperor's Members
- The Imperium's Members
- Mujengen's Members.


By having the discussion in the public sphere - easily accessible to all relevant parties - there can be no doubt as to the chain of events so far or as future events develop - Namely when The Imperium reports a breach(s) after Mujengen's self-decided 4 day limit and they then refuse to honour the agreed upon peace treaty and compensate the agreed upon 130% of the breach - no-one will then be left in any doubt about the cause or reason for The Imperium's response.

The above compromise offered by myself which Kenzu seems to like, still stands open for Mujengen to accept.... for now.


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Post by Jiro Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:08 pm

Just a nitpick, breeches are a medieval pants, breaches are things that occur when things are broken. And it's Mujengan.
That aside, I think enticing people to farm you unprofitably so that you bank compensation after a month is an unrealistic scenario.
After a while army size can change considerably though, so it may be difficult to sort the profitable hits from the unprofitable ones, so a time limit may be appropriate, if only to make sure that all people involved have equal chance to sort through the evidence. 10 days don't seem a problem for me, but I reserve the right to complain even after a longer while if the hit was for an amount of Kuwal that would not even pay for the attack turns.

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Post by Kenzu Mon Sep 13, 2010 1:29 am

I don't think anyone lets himself get farmed on purpose to use it as bank compensation, because first of all it doesnt make sense (because people who get farmed can be farmed profitably), second of all because it's no trouble for anyone to increase bank size, third of all, because there is no need to have more kuwal than fits in your bank. bank size of 200% is enough to cover anything you need and big players had enough time to reach that.

I think it's better to discuss this issue in an open matter, here on the forum. However it is not true that Ishurue was excluding us, as he was informing us of his intention to change the farming policy beforehand.

If you cant make sure to make a profitable hit, then don't risk, and if you risk, then there should be no whining about the 30% profit. And it doesnt matter if it has been asked the same day or after a week. Sometimes information takes longer to get processed, sometimes new players are not aware of the possibility to get kuwal back, sometimes they might not notice that it was a breach and sometimes there are other reasons why it takes longer to respond. I don't think it has to be repeated that the breach is not the defenders fault, but a fault of the attacker. The defender is already in a bad position being the one who suffered more losses, therefore it's clear that it would be unfair to make it much harder for him to get back what is rightfully his.
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Post by seaborgium Mon Sep 13, 2010 1:45 am

I have 675% bank space and I can't afford half the things I already have.

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Post by kingkongfan1 Mon Sep 13, 2010 2:04 am

Kenzu wrote:bank size of 200% is enough to cover anything you need

What do you know that I don't? I have 300% bank size & it is DEFINATELY not enough to cover anything I need...
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Post by Kenzu Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:47 am

kingkongfan1 wrote:
Kenzu wrote:bank size of 200% is enough to cover anything you need

What do you know that I don't? I have 300% bank size & it is DEFINATELY not enough to cover anything I need...

So what can it not cover? expensive research?
With 300% you can already save up 6 days of income. It should be enough for you. If you need to save up a week for a research, then you are hurting your economy a lot. Might be better to invest the money into economy, which would give you a strong boost and soon after you will be able to research what you wanted anyway.
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Post by seaborgium Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:08 am

Coming from the guy who is how far behind?

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Post by Nimras Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:44 am

Kenzu wrote:
kingkongfan1 wrote:
Kenzu wrote:bank size of 200% is enough to cover anything you need

What do you know that I don't? I have 300% bank size & it is DEFINATELY not enough to cover anything I need...

So what can it not cover? expensive research?
With 300% you can already save up 6 days of income. It should be enough for you. If you need to save up a week for a research, then you are hurting your economy a lot. Might be better to invest the money into economy, which would give you a strong boost and soon after you will be able to research what you wanted anyway.

M8 your talking without knowing.

My officer has 400% and her bank size is not even 20bill.

Again it all depends on how big you are as well. If you are like 200k because you keep selling UU but your bank % is 1000% what good will that do when your original bank size based on your trained units as far i recall.

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Post by seaborgium Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:30 am

Bank is this

It starts out 50m originally, you make it bigger by using trained units or increase bank size.

As you grow its big enough to support 2 days worth of 100% AE income + your bank increase %

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Post by Kingofshinobis1 Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:54 pm

seaborgium wrote:Bank is this

It starts out 50m originally, you make it bigger by using trained units or increase bank size.

As you grow its big enough to support 2 days worth of 100% AE income + your bank increase %

Well said.

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Post by ian Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:00 pm

Lol, the discussion on bank-size is funny... and I m gonna have to agree with Kenzu.

Economy *does* matter. Right now I have

Attack Technology 185%
Defense Technology 170%
Covert Technology 175%
Assassin Technology 170%

My income is 371,457,526 Kuwal - 17.8billion kuwal a day.

To get 210% Attack Technology will cost me 338,835,550,000
To get 200% Defense Technology will cost me 212,449,400,000
To get 200% Covert Technology will cost me 186,943,250,000
To get 200% Assassin Technology will cost me 212,449,400,000)

A total of 950.65billion kuwal - 53.4 days I.e. 7 and a half weeks of consistent investment.

In the mean time I d be growing by 31k UU a day from my total U.P - so would be (currently 21,071,500 army size) 22,726,900 army size after those 53 days.

On the other hand a 13million army size player with the techs already researched and (lets pretend) a total U.P of 100k and a income of 140million, will make approximately 360.84billion kuwal & 5.3million UU in that same 53 day period.

If they use the kuwal to buy UU with... thats a further 2million & 60k UU at the current 175k rate. That will leave them at 20.86million army size & the same techs vs. my 22.76million army size.

Now... Unless I m mistaken, there is noone on the game above a 13million army size with techs like the above & noone with a 100k total U.P.

Therefore.... anyone under 13million army size, and anyone under 100k total U.P is going to come out worse off than the above example.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Simply put: To say that a player is behind solely because his techs don't match another's, while ignoring the overwhelming army size (which CAN be turned into a disposable kuwal supply if sold off and invested into techs, or otherwise used to produce a income to invest into techs) advantage that player has... is a little one sided.

Based on that logic i m "behind" also given my account is not too dissimilar to Kenzu's account. Yet if I become active again and find the motivation to concentrate on techs, I m fairly confident within 50 days the "technology" gap would have diminished completely.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On the other hand... investing into economy & stockpiling army size DOES make you behind in the event you have to react to a emergency/ have a short war-mobilisation period in which to get ready - so smaller player's who ve sold UU and invested into techs DO have the advantage.

But if a larger player who's concentrated on economy decides to mobilise for war and has a decent enough period to do so... the smaller player may just find themselves rapidly loosing their advantage and eventually *will* be outclassed.

In Kenzu's defense... I m sure I also don't have to point out he's probably spend less than $100 on Aderan Wars - or if like me no more than $200 in the entire-time playing it.... so anyone who's "net-spent" ($$$ gained from selling resources minus $$$ spent buying resources - resulting in a negative figure = net spent) more than that... really can't then question why someone who's spent less is *possibly* further behind.

In reality - when you factor in economic capabilities and the long-term effects of diverting that full-economic strength to developing a military capability, there is only

1.) SA47
2.) Rflash
3) Lord Ishurue
4.) Myself
5.) Arne
6.) Stars
7.) *Maybe* Vesper

Who will be potentially stronger in the long run than Kenzu.... So personally, I d say he's not behind at all.



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Post by seaborgium Sun Sep 19, 2010 7:49 pm

Any alliance who accepts this crap of limited days should watch it. They don't "try" and contact you. I got 1 "hi" from ish late (my time) with in the first day. Nothing at any other time. Nor has my diplomat gotten any answer from Ish. and we are over 2 days.

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Post by Lord Ishurue Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:32 pm

seaborgium wrote:Any alliance who accepts this crap of limited days should watch it. They don't "try" and contact you. I got 1 "hi" from ish late (my time) with in the first day. Nothing at any other time. Nor has my diplomat gotten any answer from Ish. and we are over 2 days.

your Boy made contact with in 24 hours . and is being treated as that.
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Post by Nimras Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:17 am

Lord Ishurue wrote:
seaborgium wrote:Any alliance who accepts this crap of limited days should watch it. They don't "try" and contact you. I got 1 "hi" from ish late (my time) with in the first day. Nothing at any other time. Nor has my diplomat gotten any answer from Ish. and we are over 2 days.

your Boy made contact with in 24 hours . and is being treated as that.

Lol you answered esactly 40 hours after i made contact so please Wink.

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Post by seaborgium Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:20 pm

[22 Sep] 11:16 GeIveI2aL 249,074,368 Kuwal Stolen 10 10 50 21,442,735 312,955,629 details

I hit the button on the wrong user.
Replace supers
10 * (150,000+185,000+184,000)
= 5,190,000

Figure up value
249,074,368+5,190,000
= 254264368

So 130% = 330,543,678

seaborgium GeIveI2aL 330,543,678 Kuwal

[22 Sep] 11:20

Send Value: 21 Turns
Ask Value: 0 Turns
Replace the Kuwal/lost UU for my bad hit.

This matter is done, have a good one.

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Post by Nimras Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:26 pm

seaborgium wrote:[22 Sep] 11:16 GeIveI2aL 249,074,368 Kuwal Stolen 10 10 50 21,442,735 312,955,629 details

I hit the button on the wrong user.
Replace supers
10 * (150,000+185,000+184,000)
= 5,190,000

Figure up value
249,074,368+5,190,000
= 254264368

So 130% = 330,543,678

seaborgium GeIveI2aL 330,543,678 Kuwal

[22 Sep] 11:20

Send Value: 21 Turns
Ask Value: 0 Turns
Replace the Kuwal/lost UU for my bad hit.

This matter is done, have a good one.

And as Muj can see we stick to our policy and honest maybe now you guys stop arguing over the damn UU price.

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