Balancing races - automatic training

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Balancing races - automatic training

Post by Jiro on Mon Aug 16, 2010 7:39 am

Currently Hualu, Daning and Miraya get onits in multiple classes:
Daning: attack supers, attack units
Miraya: defence supers, defence units
Hualu: attack supers, attack units, defence supers, defence units, spies
Kyora get them in one: spies
Because the limit until where you get your free units is 10 days UP for Daning, Miraya and Kyora and 5 days for Hualu, that means that the total number of free units is as follows:
Daning: 20 days
Miraya: 20 days
Hualu: 25 days
Kyora: 10 days
Also, because hardly anyone ever uses attack units or defence units, it's become a viable strategy to simply untrain those units and use them as a source of cheap UU. A free extra UP as it were, just for Daning, Miraya and Hualu.
This causes Kyora to be significantly smaller and for them to grow more slowly.
So what could be done to balance things is:
1) Make the limit for Kyora 20 days. This would cause Kyora to be in the top covert almost by default.
or
2) Give Kyora free unit production on spies and assassins
or
3) Give everyone free 10 days UP of units, but base the limit on the total number in all of the classes they would come in. Take for example a Daning with a UP of 1000/day. If he has 10,000 attack supers and no attack units, he does not get any new units. If he has 5000 attack supers and 5000 attack units he gets nothing. If he has 9000 attack supers and no attack units, he'd get 500 attack supers and 500 attack units.
And yes, I am Kyora on reset and slightly miffed because of it.

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Re: Balancing races - automatic training

Post by Admin on Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:32 am

before I continue i'd say that I agree that the system isn't the most balanced out, however overall I think there's not too much of a grave disproportion:

your numbers would seem to an inexperienced observer that kyora gets half the units, the other classes get.
That is clearly not the case, since you only get as many units as your up is. Kyora would simply only need 10 days to reach their production limit, hualu 25 on average.

so the statement "total number of free units is as follows" is wrong.
In 10 days, all races get 10 days worth of up.

And just like daning can untrain attack soldiers, kyora can untrain their spies.
Hence your point about extra up is void

Moving onto hualu having a higher limit. They produce unit classes at random and their limit is lower than of the other classes.
Chances are they will end up with a filled up class, such as spies, and it won't be enough to cover their needs. So each turn they should get units from that class, they will not get anything.

Daning and miraya produce 50% of their up into soldiers and 50% of their up into supers. if either one is "full" then their bonus gets cut down to whatever class can still get produced.

As you can see the numbers themselves are fairly balanced however there's one more thing to consider, reality.
Kyora will get farmed more, so that will dampen their growth.
However they have significant amount of free spies, and coupled by the fact that sabs can produce kuwal for the sabber to some extent, it can produce somewhat of an alternative reaction method to getting farmed

that being said, there's gonna be a change how the extra units work next round.
it won't be a per turn bonus of only their race class but you'll be able to "order" free units.
obviously you'll get more units if you pick your specific race's class.

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Re: Balancing races - automatic training

Post by melonhead on Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:27 am

One advantage you could say kyora has over danning and mirya is the kyora could un-train all additional units they receive each day...where as danning and mirya can only un-train half..
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Re: Balancing races - automatic training

Post by Jiro on Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:45 am

So my assumption that a Daning gets free units until they have at least 10 days of UP in both attack supers and attack units is wrong? It's 5 days supers and 5 days of units?
Given that normal units are useless with the more advanced weapons, they tend to get untrained without an effect or cap on the strike or defence action. Can't do the same thing with spies.
The discussion may be a bit pointless because the whole free unit system will change, but at least consider it when creating a new system.
As for covert farming, I tried it, much to the dislike of my target. It could be something that would add somthing to main as well. It would stop farming rules about excessive defence at least Wink.

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Re: Balancing races - automatic training

Post by Admin on Mon Aug 16, 2010 2:22 pm

Daning and miraya have the following formula

Add 50% of your up to attack soldiers if attack soldiers is less than 10 days of up
Add 50% of your up to attack supers if attack supers is less than 10 days of up

So if you already have 10 days worth of supers then you will only get 50% of your up into normal soldiers as free units each turn

For hualu it works as follows:
Pick random unit class
Add 100% of your up to picked unit class if picked unit class is less than 5 days of up

Hence you can easily not get any units at all in a particular turn if a unit class gets picked that you already have maximum free units in.
Picking the unit class has nothing to do with how many units you have in that class already

TBH I wanted to add something that would give you a return of lost resources for all the stuff you kill. That's half the reason I put it in here, to test the concept.

So like assault gives you a bit more income over time and sabs give you a kuwal of the killed weapons.
But I would be against it if there wouldn't be something like the troop motivation to prevent people with high techs to go and destroy small people with low techs for very little cost.

hence either I "move" both updates, after number tweaks, or neither

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2) If I ask stupid questions it's only because sometimes people aren't smart enough to ask these themselves.
3) Being condescending to some people helps me keep my sanity when I am forced to interact with them.

I hate PR, will never engage in it and will rain destruction on all who refuse to use their brains to think before they speak.
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