No more UP per turn

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No more UP per turn

Post by Kenzu on Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:53 am

Unit Production, which is shown per turn has 3 problems.

First, It gives people not much idea about how much their real unit production per day is. Not everyone wants to use a calculator all the time. If I got 385 Unit Production, I got no Idea how much my daily UP is. Why should I make approximations, if I can have it show in per day all the time and see with one sight that i got 18.480 UP.

Second, the upgrades of unit production give little sense if you look at them, and it's hard to find out how much will say +500 unit production per day cost you. Even if you make an upgrade, its much harder to figure out how the next and the one after next upgrade will cost.

Thirdly, the biggest problem, having upgrades that increase turn production by 1, which means daily production gets increased by 48 leads to the big problem that you need vast resources for each single unit production. I end up with 10 turns of income which I cannot use on unit production because the next upgrade costs me 20 turns. A little bit unreasonable.

The best thing is to have a steadily growing unit production, which grows by 1 per day, because it makes it easy for everyone to figure out how much it will cost and also the price is not so high that it inhibit the use of kuwal so much.

Imagine how it's now on Main server. Many people got 20.000 unit production. Next upgrade costs them 30.000.000 kuwal, but if there was unit production in turns, the next upgrade would cost 48 times more, which means 1.440.000.000 kuwal! People who want to log out in the evening will frequently end up with half a billion or 1 billion kuwal which they want to use on UP, but cant due to the huge upgrade cost.

And what benefit does unit production in turns bring us? NONE!

Let's have Unit Production shown in DAYS always, and upgrade by +1 per day.
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Re: No more UP per turn

Post by kingkongfan1 on Wed Jul 07, 2010 3:21 am

now I understand the Qiuzzes I answered... IDK ATM which I like better but I think that I would like a few more days on the reset to play with the per turn U/P to see how it actually is gonna work. not disagreeing with Kenzu outright on this, but not agreeing either... king
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Re: No more UP per turn

Post by Phyurie on Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:20 am

Kenzu wrote:Unit Production, which is shown per turn has 3 problems.

First, It gives people not much idea about how much their real unit production per day is. Not everyone wants to use a calculator all the time. If I got 385 Unit Production, I got no Idea how much my daily UP is. Why should I make approximations, if I can have it show in per day all the time and see with one sight that i got 18.480 UP.

Second, the upgrades of unit production give little sense if you look at them, and it's hard to find out how much will say +500 unit production per day cost you. Even if you make an upgrade, its much harder to figure out how the next and the one after next upgrade will cost.

Thirdly, the biggest problem, having upgrades that increase turn production by 1, which means daily production gets increased by 48 leads to the big problem that you need vast resources for each single unit production. I end up with 10 turns of income which I cannot use on unit production because the next upgrade costs me 20 turns. A little bit unreasonable.

The best thing is to have a steadily growing unit production, which grows by 1 per day, because it makes it easy for everyone to figure out how much it will cost and also the price is not so high that it inhibit the use of kuwal so much.

Imagine how it's now on Main server. Many people got 20.000 unit production. Next upgrade costs them 30.000.000 kuwal, but if there was unit production in turns, the next upgrade would cost 48 times more, which means 1.440.000.000 kuwal! People who want to log out in the evening will frequently end up with half a billion or 1 billion kuwal which they want to use on UP, but cant due to the huge upgrade cost.

And what benefit does unit production in turns bring us? NONE!

Let's have Unit Production shown in DAYS always, and upgrade by +1 per day.

1. If you want it per day, multiply by 48. It's pretty easy, actually.
2. Input how many upgrades you want to buy and it will tell you how much money you need. Some addition and subtraction can give you pretty much anything you want to know.
3. This is actually why I'm defending UP per turn. I like it a lot because it brings the cost of upgrading unit production in line with the cost of other research upgrades. If you don't have the cash on hand, there's this cool feature admin added called a bank. santa

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Re: No more UP per turn

Post by Vesper on Wed Jul 07, 2010 6:36 am

Phyurie wrote:
1. If you want it per day, multiply by 48. It's pretty easy, actually.
2. Input how many upgrades you want to buy and it will tell you how much money you need. Some addition and subtraction can give you pretty much anything you want to know.
3. This is actually why I'm defending UP per turn. I like it a lot because it brings the cost of upgrading unit production in line with the cost of other research upgrades. If you don't have the cash on hand, there's this cool feature admin added called a bank. santa
cheers king

Smart guy ^^

I was always better at multiplication then division anyway. Easier to figure out daily then it would be to figure out turnly if it was per day.
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Re: No more UP per turn

Post by Admin on Wed Jul 07, 2010 6:50 am

ehm, if you normally upgrade UP with a step of 1, then increasing it in steps of 48 will not make the cost 48 times larger, since you also have to consider the increase in cost over the 48 upgrades

plus it's always easier for anyone to calculate if they should increase up or buy units if it's a per turn UP instead of a daily one. Makes it soooo much easier

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Re: No more UP per turn

Post by melonhead on Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:24 am

on main.. i dont usualy spend cash on up unless im over 48 times the cost..

like i wont just increase my up by 1 ill wait till i can increase it by a hundred or more...
i like per turn up
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Re: No more UP per turn

Post by Kenzu on Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:51 pm

One example. Why the UP per turn is not fair, there are 2 people, each of them farm and are almost equally good, however the first one gets lucky and steals a bit more than the other one. They all use it to upgrade their unit productions and player A ends up with 5 per turn and player B 6 per turns. Because of the huge UP cost, player A will not be able to upgrae to 6 per turn probably until the next day, which means he will have 48 units less, which is a lot in the beginning of the game, even though if it was on a per day basis, he could immediately spend half of his kuwal on the upgrades.

I got the problem that I am sitting on millions of kuwal and cant use them on UP because the up cost is so high.

Admin wrote:ehm, if you normally upgrade UP with a step of 1, then increasing it in steps of 48 will not make the cost 48 times larger, since you also have to consider the increase in cost over the 48 upgrades

plus it's always easier for anyone to calculate if they should increase up or buy units if it's a per turn UP instead of a daily one. Makes it soooo much easier
It's not easier for me, and I received complaints from fellow alliance members because of the insanely huge UP research cost.
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Re: No more UP per turn

Post by Vesper on Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:49 am

Kenzu wrote:One example. Why the UP per turn is not fair, there are 2 people, each of them farm and are almost equally good, however the first one gets lucky and steals a bit more than the other one. They all use it to upgrade their unit productions and player A ends up with 5 per turn and player B 6 per turns. Because of the huge UP cost, player A will not be able to upgrae to 6 per turn probably until the next day, which means he will have 48 units less, which is a lot in the beginning of the game, even though if it was on a per day basis, he could immediately spend half of his kuwal on the upgrades.

So player B is more efficient with his attacks so he gets a slightly higher UP. I believe you said it yourself a few times that the cost is ALOT so unless player B gets a much larger farm he will be unable to get that extra 1 UP gain unless he is much more efficient with his farming.

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Re: No more UP per turn

Post by Kingofshinobis1 on Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:52 am

Kenzu wrote:It's not easier for me, and I received complaints from fellow alliance members because of the insanely huge UP research cost.

Awwww poor babies Razz I'm sure you guys will warm up to it eventually Very Happy

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Re: No more UP per turn

Post by Admin on Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:02 am

I have a fix in mind but the execution is not fully clear yet.

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Re: No more UP per turn

Post by WhatsASniper1 on Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:53 pm

What if you keep it as Units per day, but also show the Units per turn to cover both sides or the argument.
Example: base page would be something like,
Unit Production
Raw 48 (Total 48) per Day
Raw 1 (Total 1) per Turn
Thoughts?
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Re: No more UP per turn

Post by Kingofshinobis1 on Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:55 pm

What would be the point of that? Admin is trying something new and I don't see a problem with it.

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Re: No more UP per turn

Post by Admin on Thu Jul 08, 2010 6:32 pm

ok, if I added that you can "save up" for the next level, would that remove any issues people would have against this system?

I.e. you can start putting in kuwal, reducing how much more you need to pay to get that next upgrade, along with a funky bar showing how many % you got left to pay

Results of the poll:
65 People voted for the change
34 People voted against the change
46 People voted they dont care

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Re: No more UP per turn

Post by Kingofshinobis1 on Thu Jul 08, 2010 6:38 pm

Well I guess that is gonna go through though I would prefer it stay how it is now Sad

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Re: No more UP per turn

Post by kingkongfan1 on Thu Jul 08, 2010 7:34 pm

ok, I got lost, are we:
A) Keeping the per turn U/P,(my preferance)
B) keeping the per day U/P

sorry, I gets confused easily, lol... king
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Re: No more UP per turn

Post by Admin on Thu Jul 08, 2010 7:44 pm

according to the poll, most people wanted to change it to turn UP.

But i think most of them dont fully understand how the cost would look like, so I think it needs a bit of tweaking

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Re: No more UP per turn

Post by melonhead on Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:22 pm

I like the progress bar idea. and prefer the turn up..its new its different its sleek its sexy
keep it
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Re: No more UP per turn

Post by Kingofshinobis1 on Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:32 pm

Lol I agree with melonhead. The turn UP adds a new strategy to reset imo. "Hmmm should I get UP or techs :S."

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Re: No more UP per turn

Post by kingkongfan1 on Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:05 pm

Kingofshinobis1 wrote:Lol I agree with melonhead. The turn UP adds a new strategy to reset imo. "Hmmm should I get UP or techs :S."

I agree as well, thanks... king
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Re: No more UP per turn

Post by Manleva on Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:01 am

I like the per turn UP but I'm not so sure about being able to get upgrades on a Laybuy basis. They already have a Bank that they can save up in.

I'm also not sute about the protection and how it works in the reset server.
It appears all the risk element is going.
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Re: No more UP per turn

Post by Phyurie on Fri Jul 09, 2010 3:22 am

I don't like the layaway idea. I really think the bank should be sufficient for saving for upgrade for UP... like every other upgrade. 'Sides, that benefits Hualu Very Happy

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Re: No more UP per turn

Post by Kingofshinobis1 on Fri Jul 09, 2010 5:20 am

Not sure most people read the whole post admin Razz or gave much thought to it. I like it and I am apparently not the only one.

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Re: No more UP per turn

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