Balance in Alliance Power on Aderan Wars

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Balance in Alliance Power on Aderan Wars

Post by Kenzu on Fri Jul 02, 2010 8:12 am

According to the data I was collecting since 13th june, the war brings more balance between alliances to Aderan Wars,
since top alliances wield less power (percentagewise compared to all server power),
this is especially true for TIE, which lost the biggest share of power of all alliances combined.
(TIE lost more power than all TOC alliances combined)

Let's compare data from 13th june and 2nd july on the example of TIE.

Adding up all total alliance powers of top 30 alliances, that have over half a billion power brought these results:

13th june

TOTAL POWER: 998 billion
TIE POWER: 357 billion


This means that TIE theoretically controlled 35.8% of serverwide alliances power (ignoring hidden alliances that were not in TOC)

2nd July:

TOTAL POWER: 917 billion (-81 billion)
TIE POWER: 269 billion (-88 billion)

Now TIE controls only 29.3% of serverwide alliances power (ignoring hidden alliances that were not in TOC)

This means that there is less domination from the biggest alliances as other alliances are increasing their influence on Aderan Wars.
There is more balance.

PS: It has to be considered that some members left the alliances during the war and will come back as soon as it ends, and that members will rebuild much more after the war. Neverheless there a considerable drop in % share of serverwide alliance power will remain.


TOC and TIE had 80% power on 13th june, The relative power of TOC+TIE fell by almost 10%. Do you think the relative power will ever fall below 60% or even below 50%? How much power will the TOC and TIE alliances wield in 1 or 3 years? Will these empires together still control majority of alliance power? What do you think?

Do you view the rise of other alliances as a good thing? Why?
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Re: Balance in Alliance Power on Aderan Wars

Post by seaborgium on Fri Jul 02, 2010 8:59 am

this is total crap.

Many accounts haven't rebuilt due to the war. My def is no where near what it was just due to war. Why waste the resources?

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Re: Balance in Alliance Power on Aderan Wars

Post by Nigatsu_Aka on Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:00 am

I don't know how TIE or ToC will evolve, but with the Alliance Upkeep, their powers will drop maybe (depends on how it will work)... there will be empires, but that is another story, but by the look of it, one will be TIE and the other ToC...

The rise of alliances is always a good thing. Atm the aderanwars has 2 poles (we can call that bi-polar power), which is not a very good thing, because all the game is influenced by their war/peace relations. In their war, the world prices will drop and the server will suffer... in peace, because TIE and ToC will not attack each other, the server will suffer again, because they will be the targets... I wish there was more diversity so that TIE and/or ToC would have less of an impact on the server.
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Re: Balance in Alliance Power on Aderan Wars

Post by Nomad on Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:48 am

I have to agree with Nigatsu about wishing there were a more diverse player base. I do think this war will lead to more players out of "TIE/TOC" tho. Only time will tell.
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Re: Balance in Alliance Power on Aderan Wars

Post by Kenzu on Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:48 am

seaborgium wrote:this is total crap.

Many accounts haven't rebuilt due to the war. My def is no where near what it was just due to war. Why waste the resources?

Does it mean that you believe that TOC and TIE combined will control a bigger percentage of the server than before the war?

I mean it's not like the other alliances are just waiting for the war to end, they keep growing as fast as before, if not faster.

Nigatsu_Aka wrote:I don't know how TIE or ToC will evolve, but with the Alliance Upkeep, their powers will drop maybe (depends on how it will work)... there will be empires, but that is another story, but by the look of it, one will be TIE and the other ToC...

The rise of alliances is always a good thing. Atm the aderanwars has 2 poles (we can call that bi-polar power), which is not a very good thing, because all the game is influenced by their war/peace relations. In their war, the world prices will drop and the server will suffer... in peace, because TIE and ToC will not attack each other, the server will suffer again, because they will be the targets... I wish there was more diversity so that TIE and/or ToC would have less of an impact on the server.

Me too

The problem is that people tend to cluster together into groups and these groups unit leading to bipolar worlds all the time. It's not an uncommon sight that many online game evolve into two superpowers facing each other filled with different alliances. And we see the same thing in the real world. Just look at all the empires in the past.

In ancient times it was typical that empires grew simply by conquering the smaller nations and absorbing them. In last 2 centuries it has been more a shift towards political unions and countries not merging into one country but simply allying with each other and fighting wars together.

Some recent examples: WWII, Cold War, and recent race towards influence and power. We can see countries forming strategic alliances (European Countries as one block, Countries alligned with Russia, Countries alligned with USA, Countries alligned with China, Some Latin American countries alligning with each other against USA), Middle Eastern countries alligning with each other against Israel, and so on.

And then we can see that these blocks, like EU for example, which can bee seen as alliances in Aderan Wars perspective, align themselves with other blocks which can be seen as empires in Aderan Wars perspective.

And then we would see how our world is shaping up into a world of very few empires controlling everything. There aren't many neutrals left.
The real world has basically 3-4 big empires
USA alligned with EU, Israel, Saudi Arabia, South Korea, Japan, some Latin American countries and others
Russia alligned with many ex-soviet countries (Belarus, Kazahstan, Mongolia,...), Latin American Countries (Venezuela, Bolivia, Chile)
China alligned with some east asian countries, many african countries, and others.
India might be an emerging empire seeking influence in other countries in the future

Of course these "empires" have relations with each other, and should there ever be a war, they will take sides and in the end it will again be a pretty much bipolar world with over 90% population in one of the 2 empires.



Last edited by Kenzu on Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:06 am; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Balance in Alliance Power on Aderan Wars

Post by Nomad on Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:56 am

they will control no more nor any less of a % of anything.

Controling a % of the server would mean you have the accounts, as the power of a single account does not control anything. An account with a total power of 1 mill controls no more then an account with a total power of 100K.


Number of accounts you could say was controling a % of something.

Personally I think TIE/TOC will control MORE after the war ends then before if you go by what your saying. They will build more total power then before where all the "other" alliances will stay the same.

Sadly most of the "other" alliances are slowly slipping away, due to lack of activity and/or commitment as far I can tell.
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Re: Balance in Alliance Power on Aderan Wars

Post by Kenzu on Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:33 am

Would be nice if AW had 10 times more players. There would be countless big alliances and each alliance by itself would not be able to influence much.
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Re: Balance in Alliance Power on Aderan Wars

Post by curumo on Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:38 am

indeed ...

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Re: Balance in Alliance Power on Aderan Wars

Post by Nimras on Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:04 pm

Kenzu wrote:Would be nice if AW had 10 times more players. There would be countless big alliances and each alliance by itself would not be able to influence much.

Maybe but as far i see it your game is not going in that direction as every player you gain roughly 4 times that much leaves.

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Re: Balance in Alliance Power on Aderan Wars

Post by Nigatsu_Aka on Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:37 pm

Nimras wrote:
Kenzu wrote:Would be nice if AW had 10 times more players. There would be countless big alliances and each alliance by itself would not be able to influence much.

Maybe but as far i see it your game is not going in that direction as every player you gain roughly 4 times that much leaves.

You do like to bitch don't you? Mad

Let's say that you are right... what are the causes?
- the game?
- the player base?

I think that the game is fine. The player base, is fine... but too concentrated... there is a certain group of players (with a few exceptions in there) and i'm refering here to TIE that have played games togheter: dunewars, taw, etc... they will always play togheter... if The Company wouldn't have merged with The Commonwealth, the game would have had 3 powers at least... that is the primary evil... then ToC was the reaction to TIEs forming... and voila bipolar power.

"This is offtopic - can be ignored":

Ok, the recruiting system is damn fine, almost everything in the game is well thought... maybe the game needs more agresive advertising? ... i dunno... figure it out. If i were to follow a trend, i would make a banner add with a naked girl saying come play with me and advertise that everywhere... but i'm not sure how much good that will make to the game if they don't find a naked girl inside. Razz
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Re: Balance in Alliance Power on Aderan Wars

Post by Admin on Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:48 pm

Nigatsu_Aka wrote:maybe the game needs more agresive advertising?
we've tried that/are still trying

fact remains it'd be cheaper for me to give normal/ultimate supporter status for every long term player that gets brought into the game by someone, than to pay for ads

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Re: Balance in Alliance Power on Aderan Wars

Post by Nimras on Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:52 pm

Nigatsu_Aka wrote:
Nimras wrote:
Kenzu wrote:Would be nice if AW had 10 times more players. There would be countless big alliances and each alliance by itself would not be able to influence much.

Maybe but as far i see it your game is not going in that direction as every player you gain roughly 4 times that much leaves.

You do like to bitch don't you? Mad

Let's say that you are right... what are the causes?
- the game?
- the player base?

I think that the game is fine. The player base, is fine... but too concentrated... there is a certain group of players (with a few exceptions in there) and i'm refering here to TIE that have played games togheter: dunewars, taw, etc... they will always play togheter... if The Company wouldn't have merged with The Commonwealth, the game would have had 3 powers at least... that is the primary evil... then ToC was the reaction to TIEs forming... and voila bipolar power.

"This is offtopic - can be ignored":

Ok, the recruiting system is damn fine, almost everything in the game is well thought... maybe the game needs more agresive advertising? ... i dunno... figure it out. If i were to follow a trend, i would make a banner add with a naked girl saying come play with me and advertise that everywhere... but i'm not sure how much good that will make to the game if they don't find a naked girl inside. Razz

Nah i just point out the obvius.

Take GW its also going to die because Admin will not change where the change is needed.

Here people leave because of factors which are many.

Som leave because of the Farm update.

I know people leaving because they find the game to slow.

Others i seen leave because they found it boring.

People leaving because it was to hard to understand.

Basicly the reason people leave is many and thats life.

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Re: Balance in Alliance Power on Aderan Wars

Post by Magnus on Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:12 pm

Nigatsu_Aka wrote:
Nimras wrote:
Kenzu wrote:Would be nice if AW had 10 times more players. There would be countless big alliances and each alliance by itself would not be able to influence much.

Maybe but as far i see it your game is not going in that direction as every player you gain roughly 4 times that much leaves.

You do like to bitch don't you? Mad

Let's say that you are right... what are the causes?
- the game?
- the player base?

I think that the game is fine. The player base, is fine... but too concentrated... there is a certain group of players (with a few exceptions in there) and i'm refering here to TIE that have played games togheter: dunewars, taw, etc... they will always play togheter... if The Company wouldn't have merged with The Commonwealth, the game would have had 3 powers at least... that is the primary evil... then ToC was the reaction to TIEs forming... and voila bipolar power.

"This is offtopic - can be ignored":

Ok, the recruiting system is damn fine, almost everything in the game is well thought... maybe the game needs more agresive advertising? ... i dunno... figure it out. If i were to follow a trend, i would make a banner add with a naked girl saying come play with me and advertise that everywhere... but i'm not sure how much good that will make to the game if they don't find a naked girl inside. Razz


The Primary evil has nothing to do with alliances. It has mainly to do with the fact what Nimras has pointed out. Nigatsu do not get mad, but he is right. Alliances I believe factor in as little as possible. Take SGW for an example with DDE. They where annoying, but none the less people left because of not liking the game anymore.

I think the limitation to alliances is good, but pulling costs out of everything is not good and that might get people to leave more. I can understand the principle behind admins moves, but it does not mean that it may be good.
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Re: Balance in Alliance Power on Aderan Wars

Post by ian on Fri Jul 02, 2010 8:50 pm

I don't know why you guys are all focusing upon The Imperium Empire - we aren't a superpower any more, merely a major power. The superpower title now (in theory) stands with The Order of Chaos.

Your *active* economy is probably about 130 - 150% of The Imperium's, and your overall power after this war is probably going to be at least 150% of The Imperium's. You have 130+ players - The Imperium after this war will have 37, maybe even 35.

There is simply no comparison to be made. We aren't in the same league - and in reality we NEVER have been in the same league as the combined forces of World Republic and Mujengen... let alone factoring in Emperor's or New Federation.

Basically... its all in your heads lol.

Is The Imperium the strongest individual alliance on the game still? Yes.
Is The Imperium's average per player still higher than other alliances of similar/higher membership size (i.e 30+ members)? Yes
Is The Imperium's top 5 - 10 accounts on average stronger than other alliance (or indeed empire's) top 5 - 10 accounts? Yes.

THAT is what has allowed us to hold our ground and give T.O.C a serious run for their money - the sheer concentration of our forces into numerically less but more advanced accounts - whereas T.O.C has to bring more members to bare to do the same job as what The Imperium can with fewer members.

But we ve never really been a superpower when you compare us to the combined force and economy of the alliances which would one day become T.O.C... or at the very least not since about 3 - 4 months ago when FIRE became a major alliance finally.

This isn't opinion... its simple reality.

Its also simple reality that once this war is over The Order of Chaos will most likely surge ahead to be larger than the rest of the server combined economically - having 100+ active accounts all directed and coordinated in economic growth without having a very expensive and costly war sucking those resources dry will result in T.O.C's economic expansion to be massive - and their military capability will grow to reflect this.

A simple comparison between TIE & TOC's future capacity's will be TIE using a knife and TOC using a sledge hammer. A knife is precise, small & sharp - and if used correctly and effectively able to be just as deadly as a sledge hammer. A sledge hammer relies on brute force to get a job done - its not necessarily precise or very effective, its large and cumbersome... but its just as deadly as a knife and requires less precision and skill (effort) to use. Both are very deadly.

In that sense TIE & TOC are both superpowers as the only alliance which could possibly stand up to one of them is the other one. There's no other alliance on the server which currently could win a war against either which isn't TOC or TIE - and for the foreseeable future both are evenly matched.

But... overall The Imperium makes up only a relatively small portion of the server's economy & military capacity. We are undoubtedly its most elite (economy, military and experience per member) alliance/empire... but in terms of the raw economy and military size... T.O.C is the superpower.

TIE is the elite power.
TOC's the superpower.

Being elite isn't enough to ensure server domination. Being a raw (i.e. massive "raw" capacities but not necessarily focused or "toned" capacities i.e. its spread over 130 members) superpower isn't enough to ensure server domination. To dominate the server... you need both.

That means TIE needs to expand its active member base to enlarge our "raw" capacities, while T.O.C needs to develop more larger/advanced accounts to expand its "elite" capacities/ membership.

In terms of the "weakness" of TIE & TOC vs. the server... i actually feel sad for the server. Both sides may be "physically" weaker than what we were, but in terms of experience we are so much tougher. We can get the job done a lot more effectively than we could with more resources at the start of the war - and i personally feel the experience and techniques developed in this war outweigh the "lost" physical (i.e. power/resources) parts of TIE & TOC.

After this war is done the server will be even more lopsided in our favour - especially when you consider TIE & TOC members will take onboard lessons learnt in this war and (hopefully) rebuild their accounts with these in mind - meaning another war they ll be even harder to mass, or otherwise it will be harder to kill more resources on them due to their doing the same job with less....
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Re: Balance in Alliance Power on Aderan Wars

Post by Lord Ishurue on Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:47 pm

Nomad wrote:they will control no more nor any less of a % of anything.

Controling a % of the server would mean you have the accounts, as the power of a single account does not control anything. An account with a total power of 1 mill controls no more then an account with a total power of 100K.


Number of accounts you could say was controling a % of something.

Personally I think TIE/TOC will control MORE after the war ends then before if you go by what your saying. They will build more total power then before where all the "other" alliances will stay the same.

Sadly most of the "other" alliances are slowly slipping away, due to lack of activity and/or commitment as far I can tell.

Both TOC & TIE lost a lot of the fat from their member base ( With the exception of skilled warriors leaving to make their own alliances ) . Now both sides got their lean beaf / 99% fat free member base .

Black Dragons, The Genesis , and Black Watch 3 seem to be growing strongly .

who knows maybe they will be the third king some day .

TBH i would like to see those 3 jump into the war and mass both TOC & TIE . I think that would be really cool .




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Re: Balance in Alliance Power on Aderan Wars

Post by Kingofshinobis1 on Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:51 pm

Well it would certainly make things more interesting but I doubt that would happen Razz

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Re: Balance in Alliance Power on Aderan Wars

Post by Lord Ishurue on Sat Jul 03, 2010 12:05 am

Kingofshinobis1 wrote:Well it would certainly make things more interesting but I doubt that would happen Razz

prolly , but still it would have been cool .
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Re: Balance in Alliance Power on Aderan Wars

Post by Nomad on Sat Jul 03, 2010 12:10 am

I would have to disagree with WR being lean beef, its still got alot of fat TBH.


Maybe if everyone patitions them to join the war they would do it?

Then again 2 of those 3 alliances are made up of those who left the war to begin with?
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Re: Balance in Alliance Power on Aderan Wars

Post by seaborgium on Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:55 am

BW3 left before the war really started. BD have been peaceful, I won't comment on TG I have a few friends there.

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Re: Balance in Alliance Power on Aderan Wars

Post by Vesper on Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:54 am

I am hoping that after the ToC vs TIE war ends a new power will rise.

TIE - 263,368,640,366 - 40 members (6,584,216,009 per)
ToC excluding Muj - 254,990,853,652 - 84 members (3,035,605,400 per)
Top 6 unaligned alliances excluding GD - 260,319,886,724 - 33 members (7,888,481,415 per)

If the top 6 alliances that are not in an empire joined together they would have the highest concentration of power on the server while TIE and ToC are at war. Someone might even go as far to think that if the alliances grouped together they could fight against TIE or ToC... There already is a 3rd power on the server it just needs for someone to organize it and to present the simple truth that there is a higher concentration of powerful players roaming around unaligned then there is in any empire. Even if you were to add in Muj, ToC's power per player would still be less then TIEs and not even close to the unaligned 6. If GD was to align with the other unaligned there be a new empire more powerful then either ToC or TIE. Lots of dormant power on the server right now that EVERYONE seems to overlook.


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Re: Balance in Alliance Power on Aderan Wars

Post by Manleva on Sat Jul 03, 2010 3:39 am

Taking a quick look under the hood so to speak I would have to say that TIE appears to be carrying the least dead weight while WR appears to have a large number of zero defense inactive players in their ranks.

The only thing that the war is doing well at this time is to make individual players look at the choices they have made around the alliances that they have joined. It's the decisions that these individuals will make that will be the only thing that is really going to affect the actual balance of power.

Your right Vesper that there is a lot of power at this time sitting on the server and not in either TOC or TIE. Whether this power will coalesce to form an alternative or better yet a number of alternatives only time will tell.

At the moment I think that a lot of these non aligned players and alliances are taking things slowly and carefully and there are many questions to be asked as to where the true allegiance of some of these individuals or alliances who have participated in the War actually lies.

On a purely personal point of view I consider that all three of the largest alliances have to many players. I think that smaller alliances would bring far more interest and competition within the game and a lot more variety which would improve player retention and ultimately player retention is the most important factor not who wins the war because without players then there will be no war, no fun, no enjoyment and no game.
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Re: Balance in Alliance Power on Aderan Wars

Post by Kingofshinobis1 on Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:55 pm

Manleva wrote:
At the moment I think that a lot of these non aligned players and alliances are taking things slowly and carefully and there are many questions to be asked as to where the true allegiance of some of these individuals or alliances who have participated in the War actually lies.

Well you can be sure that TG has no allegiance to any alliance besides itself for now (being that vesper and myself left the war to make this unaligned alliance).

Manieva wrote:
On a purely personal point of view I consider that all three of the largest alliances have to many players. I think that smaller alliances would bring far more interest and competition within the game and a lot more variety which would improve player retention and ultimately player retention is the most important factor not who wins the war because without players then there will be no war, no fun, no enjoyment and no game.

I agree. The top 3 alliance do have a lot of players and having more medium sized alliances would be good for the game but its not like they didn't work for that amount and making them separate is not something I condone.


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Re: Balance in Alliance Power on Aderan Wars

Post by SovietMan on Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:53 pm

Lord Ishurue wrote:

TBH i would like to see those 3 jump into the war and mass both TOC & TIE . I think that would be really cool . [/color]

I agree Very Happy too bad i'm nowhere ready for active wars. :<

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Re: Balance in Alliance Power on Aderan Wars

Post by Lord Ishurue on Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:16 am

SovietMan wrote:
Lord Ishurue wrote:

TBH i would like to see those 3 jump into the war and mass both TOC & TIE . I think that would be really cool . [/color]

I agree Very Happy too bad i'm nowhere ready for active wars. :<

when the TOC vs TIE war ends hit me up . ill send u 50k Units .


Last edited by Lord Ishurue on Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:16 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Purple color)
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Re: Balance in Alliance Power on Aderan Wars

Post by Magnus on Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:08 pm

Lord Ishurue wrote:
SovietMan wrote:
Lord Ishurue wrote:

TBH i would like to see those 3 jump into the war and mass both TOC & TIE . I think that would be really cool . [/color]

I agree Very Happy too bad i'm nowhere ready for active wars. :<

when the TOC vs TIE war ends hit me up . ill send u 50k Units .

Ish you do have a personal Grudge
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Re: Balance in Alliance Power on Aderan Wars

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