Idle units

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Idle units

Post by Admin on Sat May 22, 2010 1:29 pm

will be decreasing the income they produce to 0 kuwal per turn for obvious reasons.

ETA: a few days + any time that will be spent discussing this and presenting reasonable arguments.

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Re: Idle units

Post by ian on Sat May 22, 2010 6:48 pm

In my eyes Idle units are a military reserve i.e. you keep 100k or 200k+ standing by in times of increased-tension in the event war-kicks off so you can replace losses without having to reassign income units.

So... i actually fully like this idea of reducing the income they give down to 0. By the very definition they are *idle* - meaning not working, just standing around in reserve. Consequently they should not provide a bonus of any-form.
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Re: Idle units

Post by Nomad on Sun May 23, 2010 5:08 pm

I suggested the same, or even a loss of income (tho very small) since they are being "protected" and are idle. I got no issues with this update and feel its fair. (well really it should have been 0 from the beginning but I have enjoyed the income i got from idle units)
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Re: Idle units

Post by Kenzu on Sun May 23, 2010 5:57 pm

farmers are protected too.
Why do they have to produce 0 income?

Why cant they simply produce 15 or 20 income?

If they produce nothing, then they are completely useless, since it's easy to train farmers, afterall after 3 days they will produce enough income to be untrained.

In other words idles would make sense only in cases where they are kept idle for less than 3 days, which is not often the case.
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Re: Idle units

Post by Nomad on Sun May 23, 2010 6:12 pm

idles get a benifit *protection*

idles have no cost *no training*

any benifit should have a cost

remove income, or add a training and untraining cost

if you add training cost they are the same as farmers. Remeber why they were created in the first place.
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Re: Idle units

Post by Nigatsu_Aka on Sun May 23, 2010 7:29 pm

I said and will keep sustaining that the idle units are the most stupid update that this game had... by far. Remove them.
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Re: Idle units

Post by Nomad on Sun May 23, 2010 8:06 pm

You have yet to explain why you feel that way.

I think they serve their purpose well, and give no one any advantages or exploits in using them, but offer genuine help to those who need it such as the smaller accounts who have to do multiple trades involving UU when they have small bank sizes.
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Re: Idle units

Post by Paladius on Sun May 23, 2010 8:14 pm

I agree with nomad, Idle units are very useful especially when you have too many uu and not enough kewal to train them into your military. So I can't understand how idle units are a stupid update.
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Re: Idle units

Post by kingkongfan1 on Sun May 23, 2010 11:24 pm

I don't see the issue personally, Idle units don't stay Idle for very long on my account... lol... king
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Re: Idle units

Post by Nigatsu_Aka on Mon May 24, 2010 7:04 am

multies, unbalancing, etc... use your brains...
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Re: Idle units

Post by Kenzu on Mon May 24, 2010 9:37 am

i am still to see a proper reason why they should not give 20 kuwal per turn.

raiding is primarily thought to be done against inactives, that's why you have to wait for someone to have over 25.000 of them and have zero defense to be raided.

the only reason why actives have idles is when raiding themselves and trading. thus no problem letting them produce 20 kuwal per turn.

Nomad wrote:idles get a benifit *protection*

idles have no cost *no training*

any benifit should have a cost

remove income, or add a training and untraining cost

if you add training cost they are the same as farmers. Remeber why they were created in the first place.

all i am saying is make them into farmers and in a couple days you get your money back.
This update is not necessary
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Re: Idle units

Post by Nomad on Mon May 24, 2010 9:57 am

Nigatsu_Aka wrote:multies, unbalancing, etc... use your brains...

multi's yes, but its the same risk idles or not, and please explain unbalancing.

@ Kenzu, ask your brother since he said its being done for "obvious reasons"
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Re: Idle units

Post by Paladius on Mon May 24, 2010 4:33 pm

Nigatsu_Aka wrote:multies, unbalancing, etc... use your brains...
Im using my brain, are you using yours? LOL Twisted Evil
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Re: Idle units

Post by Nigatsu_Aka on Mon May 24, 2010 7:54 pm

Paladius wrote:
Nigatsu_Aka wrote:multies, unbalancing, etc... use your brains...
Im using my brain, are you using yours? LOL Twisted Evil

Indeed you are, i see that you are a true genius.


I won't explain unbalancing. Has a lot to do with trading... and i really do not have time and patience to explain obvious things. It's my last reply to idle units. Do as you wish, the wrong has already been done.
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Re: Idle units

Post by Admin on Mon May 24, 2010 7:57 pm

next one to say something about the intelligence of someone else will get very upset about the consequences

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Re: Idle units

Post by Paladius on Mon May 24, 2010 8:31 pm

Nigatsu_Aka wrote:
Paladius wrote:
Nigatsu_Aka wrote:multies, unbalancing, etc... use your brains...
Im using my brain, are you using yours? LOL Twisted Evil

Indeed you are, i see that you are a true genius.


I won't explain unbalancing. Has a lot to do with trading... and i really do not have time and patience to explain obvious things. It's my last reply to idle units. Do as you wish, the wrong has already been done.
Well aparently, it's not too obvious. Everyone doesn't think the same way, and for me to understand you have to explain things to me. Im not going to force you to explain why idle units are a stupid idea, because it isn't that important.
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Re: Idle units

Post by ¤ Angel Slayer on Mon May 24, 2010 11:20 pm

Nomad wrote:idles get a benifit *protection*

idles have no cost *no training*

any benifit should have a cost

remove income, or add a training and untraining cost

if you add training cost they are the same as farmers. Remeber why they were created in the first place.

Idle units were made to help the smaller players,
sticking a charge to train and untrain isn't helping them,
might as well just get rid of them then.
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Re: Idle units

Post by Nomad on Tue May 25, 2010 12:18 am

¤ Angel Slayer wrote:
Nomad wrote:idles get a benifit *protection*

idles have no cost *no training*

any benifit should have a cost

remove income, or add a training and untraining cost

if you add training cost they are the same as farmers. Remeber why they were created in the first place.

Idle units were made to help the smaller players,
sticking a charge to train and untrain isn't helping them,
might as well just get rid of them then.

Exactly Slayer.

And chancing an action from admin I'll say that in all honesty I do not understand Nigatsu. The original idea that brought about the creation of idles was done to help new players and traders. I think it has done so. I can not sit here and think of anything you can do with them that you can't do with farmers already, maybe cheaper with idles yes, but still possible with farmers. That said there has been alot of good come from it from active players who grew, and still grow by selling UU to increase UP, wash rinse and repeat with some raiding involved. Having done the same with farmers would have slowed them down considerably.

You said you piece and I accept that, but i do wish i could see it from your side.
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Re: Idle units

Post by ian on Tue May 25, 2010 1:00 am

I agree with SA47 - plus on top of that is the strategical aspect i.e. idleunits = manpower reserves. It allows people in war (as i experienced in my personal war with buhcorethegreat) to keep a reserve of units available to replace losses without having to reduce income units etc...

I consequently think idle units should provide no income however - and should remain free to train.
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Re: Idle units

Post by Miglow on Tue May 25, 2010 9:52 am

I never saw the game *without* idle units.

As a new player I have yet to find any real value in using idle units. It's pretty damned easy to find the kuwal needed to train farmers. The hardest to train are supers and even then it's ok as long as you train what you can afford. The few times I did use idle units were probably a waste of the kuwal from leaving them as UU since I rarely had enough to be raidable. So if anything training idle units hurt me.

I'd like to know how many new players are using idles to save up for trades.
The only people that really benefit from idle units are those who are using them as a stockpile for battles or big trades. The people who are doing this are the ones who are dealing with massive amounts of UU, i.e. not new players.

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Re: Idle units

Post by Manleva on Tue May 25, 2010 9:58 am

I agree with the thoughts in favor of idle units. They are of benefit to new players and also traders. They also have their strategic value as pointed out by Ian.

However while I agree with Ian and others that they should provide no income and their training and un-training should remain free, I think that a very small cost for upkeep could be introduced, say 1 or 2 Kuwal per unit to cover the basics of feeding and clothing them.
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Re: Idle units

Post by Nigatsu_Aka on Tue May 25, 2010 10:12 am

Miglow wrote:I never saw the game *without* idle units.

As a new player I have yet to find any real value in using idle units. It's pretty damned easy to find the kuwal needed to train farmers. The hardest to train are supers and even then it's ok as long as you train what you can afford. The few times I did use idle units were probably a waste of the kuwal from leaving them as UU since I rarely had enough to be raidable. So if anything training idle units hurt me.

I'd like to know how many new players are using idles to save up for trades.
The only people that really benefit from idle units are those who are using them as a stockpile for battles or big trades. The people who are doing this are the ones who are dealing with massive amounts of UU, i.e. not new players.

Bravo!
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Re: Idle units

Post by kingkongfan1 on Tue May 25, 2010 12:53 pm

ok ya'll, having gone over this thread more than once, & having spoken to several players outside of the forums, I have come to realize that I am not the only one with no clue as to what the "obvious reasons" are for this move, as I said earlier I do not have an issue with it, just don't know the reasons behind it. is there any way that the "obvious reasons" can be explained? as it isn't "obvious" to Kong... LOL... king
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Re: Idle units

Post by Paladius on Tue May 25, 2010 2:25 pm

Miglow wrote:I never saw the game *without* idle units.

As a new player I have yet to find any real value in using idle units. It's pretty damned easy to find the kuwal needed to train farmers. The hardest to train are supers and even then it's ok as long as you train what you can afford. The few times I did use idle units were probably a waste of the kuwal from leaving them as UU since I rarely had enough to be raidable. So if anything training idle units hurt me.

I'd like to know how many new players are using idles to save up for trades.
The only people that really benefit from idle units are those who are using them as a stockpile for battles or big trades. The people who are doing this are the ones who are dealing with massive amounts of UU, i.e. not new players.
You are correct, new players wont find any value in idle units because most likely they won't have that many uu out. Someone who has 100,000 uu out will find some value in idle units, i had 100,000 uu and put all of them into idle units to keep them from being stolen from me. So its not completely useless like nigatsu "thinks" it is.
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Re: Idle units

Post by seaborgium on Tue May 25, 2010 3:32 pm

The problem is that I have seen some 400k accounts with only 24k trained units.... where do you think the rest is?

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