Aderan Raiding Policy

Kenzu wrote:Introduction:

This policy is in effect from the day it will be signed.


Aderan Raiding Policy

To raid units, only raid attacks are allowed.

Massing someone to crush defenses and steal units is from now on FORBIDDEN!
This means that assault, sabotage and assassination missions are not allowed!

Explanation:

Even if a player didn't log in for 14 days, you are not allowed to mass his defenses to raid his untrained.
And it doesn't matter if he has 50.000 untrained units or 500.000.

Defenses gradually fall, and if a player stays inactive long enough, they will fall to zero one day.

This policy will save players who went inactive for a week or even longer from much damage.
Afterall if too much is destroyed, they might decide to leave the game.

EDIT: corrected grammar mistakes

------------------------------------------------------------------

World Republic Stance

I, Keinutnai, leader of World Republic sign Aderan Raiding Policy on behalf of World Republic.
If anyone masses a player with the intention to steal untrained, he will have to pay a compensation to the victim, equal to 100% of all lost resources (military units lost, weapons lost, untrained). World Republic will help victims get their resources back. If the attacker doesn't want to pay back, his action are an equivalent to a declaration of war, and thus World Republic will fight back.

If you became victim of a massing raid, please contact WR leadership. We will help you!

exactly what does the statement," If you become victom of a massing raid, please contact WR leadership. We will help you!" mean if it doesn't mean that you will stand up for the person attacked? what is said above, is a clear statement of intent, what is said below, sounds like you are pulling away from the previous statement?


[quote="Kenzu"]

seaborgium wrote:
Does WR still plan to stand up for those who step forward?
Depends on what you mean by "standing up for those who step forward"

Honestly Kenzu, do you have the slightest clue what is really going on here?

Kenzu wrote:
If anyone masses members of TOC, all TOC alliances and allies will obviously come to aid to take out the agressor.
I hope this answers your questions

I suggest that you pass the word around AGAIN to all T.o.C. members that illegal hits must be compensated for, elsewise there will be problems.

Personally I would stay out of things that did not concern World Republic if I were you, As you say you do not run Mujengan, & have no control as to what they do...

Kong smells something, Kong likes that smell...

Kenzu wrote:@ian
I recommend you will stop trying to make World Republic look bad. Also, World Republic is not responsible for actions of players who aren't members of World Republic. There is no reason why World Republic should pay for people who aren't in World Republic.
Btw, Your way of talking is getting on my nerves again. How about you talk in a way that doesn't piss people off?

Frankly I couldn't careless whether I annoy you or not. I quoted what YOU yourself said. Nothing more, nothing less. You said you d declare war on those who break this policy if compensation is not provided... well, Mujengen broke the policy - are you going to stand by your pledge or not? Its as simple as that... if not, your word means less than the sort of muck left by dogs you d step in on a pavement.

As for responsibility... AGAIN, you pick & choose when to take responsibility for the actions of T.O.C members. You happily wash your hands of ALL responsibility for Mujengen & World Republic members when they do something embarrassing..... yet the moment something you don't like happens to them, you all of a sudden decide you need to take responsibility for their well-being and intervene - just as you happily fall back on the "we re all united and together" philosophy when you need something.

Your either together or your not. You can't just pick and choose when you linked and when your not based on when its convenient....

ian wrote:

Kenzu wrote:@ian
I recommend you will stop trying to make World Republic look bad. Also, World Republic is not responsible for actions of players who aren't members of World Republic. There is no reason why World Republic should pay for people who aren't in World Republic.
Btw, Your way of talking is getting on my nerves again. How about you talk in a way that doesn't piss people off?

Frankly I couldn't careless whether I annoy you or not. I quoted what YOU yourself said. Nothing more, nothing less. You said you d declare war on those who break this policy if compensation is not provided... well, Mujengen broke the policy - are you going to stand by your pledge or not? Its as simple as that... if not, your word means less than the sort of muck left by dogs you d step in on a pavement.

As for responsibility... AGAIN, you pick & choose when to take responsibility for the actions of T.O.C members. You happily wash your hands of ALL responsibility for Mujengen & World Republic members when they do something embarrassing..... yet the moment something you don't like happens to them, you all of a sudden decide you need to take responsibility for their well-being and intervene - just as you happily fall back on the "we re all united and together" philosophy when you need something.

Your either together or your not. You can't just pick and choose when you linked and when your not based on when its convenient....

@Ian- once again "well said"...
@Kenzu- he has a point, & so does Seaborgium, the question now is, "Are you going to stand by your word or not?", I know the answer, "Depends on what you mean by my word."... LMAO!!!

ian wrote:well, Mujengen broke the policy - are you going to stand by your pledge or not? Its as simple as that... if not, your word means less than the sort of muck left by dogs you d step in on a pavement.

lmao this line was kinda funny

so, who was mass raided and why he was such a fool to keep 700k UU untrained in the open? He was part of a major alliance and none taught him that this is a wrong thing to do?
Dunno about you guys, but 700k UU ready to be taken sounds good to me - well maybe i would be too kind and take only the 600k

But all in all it depends on the defense to be hit, if the hit would generate really good profit, ain't it valid?

Beldar I think you need to reread what He has said in the policy. This is something that both WR and Muj signed. After Muj went about a week they edited the post and didn't say anything to anyone about pulling out. They recently hit a friend of SA which is why SA brought it up. Do I think what Muj did was wrong? No, would I have done it, Yes. The question I am asking is that since Kenzu says in his post that if anyone comes forward, WR will work on there behalf and get them compensation or the offenders are declaring war against WR, and would be massed. We are asking that if the person that Muj massed then raided came to WR for support, would WR follow there stated policy and work to get the player compensated and if Muj didn't would WR declare war on the players who massed and raided the player.

The outcome will be this

1. If WR says they will defend the guy and if Muj doesn't pay then they will mass the player
- This shows the WR sticks to there written word, and this polcy
- It shows to Muj that WR will stab people in the back.

2. If WR doesn't follow the written policy.
- Then there written word isn't worth the "paper" its written on.
- Shows that WR treats everything with different hands.

Kenzu wrote:Introduction:

This policy is in effect from the day it will be signed.


Aderan Raiding Policy

To raid units, only raid attacks are allowed.

Massing someone to crush defenses and steal units is from now on FORBIDDEN!
This means that assault, sabotage and assassination missions are not allowed!

Explanation:

Even if a player didn't log in for 14 days, you are not allowed to mass his defenses to raid his untrained.
And it doesn't matter if he has 50.000 untrained units or 500.000.

Defenses gradually fall, and if a player stays inactive long enough, they will fall to zero one day.

This policy will save players who went inactive for a week or even longer from much damage.
Afterall if too much is destroyed, they might decide to leave the game.

EDIT: corrected grammar mistakes

------------------------------------------------------------------

World Republic Stance

I, Keinutnai, leader of World Republic sign Aderan Raiding Policy on behalf of World Republic.
If anyone masses a player with the intention to steal untrained, he will have to pay a compensation to the victim, equal to 100% of all lost resources (military units lost, weapons lost, untrained). World Republic will help victims get their resources back. If the attacker doesn't want to pay back, his action are an equivalent to a declaration of war, and thus World Republic will fight back.

If you became victim of a massing raid, please contact WR leadership. We will help you!

Now as you can already see, I put myself out, I offered to give him the players that I did this to. He hasn't asked for it. I can say that unless the players come forward then he has nothing to "push" as I would just send the stuff back and then take it again lol. As the players aren't active.

seaborgium wrote:
1. If WR says they will defend the guy and if Muj doesn't pay then they will mass the player
- This shows the WR sticks to there written word, and this polcy
- It shows to Muj that WR will stab people in the back.

I see nothing wrong with Kenzu's policy of "protecting people"... As i see nothing wrong to the guy who mass raided a total fool (apparently) who had 700k UU in the open... They are both right, they just see things differently :p

This means that massing the guy (if he does not want to compensate etc) is simply fair, i do not see how doing this is betraying Mujenjan...

You basically post two things that are not necesserily the "one or another" way to happen hehe - and even if WR does mass this player, even then it is not the "one or another" you post...

But i agree your post contains the necessery "dramatic" element needed for war games' forums

clock is ticking

tik tok tik tok

Currently unless someone steps up then you are right nothing can be done.
However we are asking what would happen if that person would step up.


Personaly anyone who is dumb enough to let that build up deserves it. But that isn't the issue.

The issue is will WR defend anyone, or will they give in bc its an ally.

Beldar wrote:

seaborgium wrote:
1. If WR says they will defend the guy and if Muj doesn't pay then they will mass the player
- This shows the WR sticks to there written word, and this polcy
- It shows to Muj that WR will stab people in the back.

I see nothing wrong with Kenzu's policy of "protecting people"... As i see nothing wrong to the guy who mass raided a total fool (apparently) who had 700k UU in the open... They are both right, they just see things differently :p

This means that massing the guy (if he does not want to compensate etc) is simply fair, i do not see how doing this is betraying Mujenjan...

You basically post two things that are not necesserily the "one or another" way to happen hehe - and even if WR does mass this player, even then it is not the "one or another" you post...

But i agree your post contains the necessery "dramatic" element needed for war games' forums

clock is ticking

tik tok tik tok

the last time I checked, the sabbing of a defense for any reason, is an act of war & in the policy that World Republic, & Mujengan drew up & signed, is illegal & a massing offense if compensation is not made... Kenzu has stated that World Republic will defend a player attacked in this manner, unfortunately it is a member of the T.o.C. empire, Mujengan actually,,, that has breached the policy.

kingkongfan1 wrote:

Beldar wrote:

seaborgium wrote:
1. If WR says they will defend the guy and if Muj doesn't pay then they will mass the player
- This shows the WR sticks to there written word, and this polcy
- It shows to Muj that WR will stab people in the back.

I see nothing wrong with Kenzu's policy of "protecting people"... As i see nothing wrong to the guy who mass raided a total fool (apparently) who had 700k UU in the open... They are both right, they just see things differently :p

This means that massing the guy (if he does not want to compensate etc) is simply fair, i do not see how doing this is betraying Mujenjan...

You basically post two things that are not necesserily the "one or another" way to happen hehe - and even if WR does mass this player, even then it is not the "one or another" you post...

But i agree your post contains the necessery "dramatic" element needed for war games' forums

clock is ticking

tik tok tik tok

the last time I checked, the sabbing of a defense for any reason, is an act of war & in the policy that World Republic, & Mujengan drew up & signed, is illegal & a massing offense if compensation is not made... Kenzu has stated that World Republic will defend a player attacked in this manner, unfortunately it is a member of the T.o.C. empire, Mujengan actually,,, that has breached the policy.

I have said we will help the victims, that doesn't necessarily mean that we will be attacking our own guys.

And in fact, after being informed of this dispute, World Republic helped by negotiating the matter between the parties and the issue has been solved. The attacker paid full compensation and there are no more disputes between Mujengan and Marauders.

Kenzu wrote:
I have said we will help the victims, that doesn't necessarily mean that we will be attacking our own guys.

And in fact, after being informed of this dispute, World Republic helped by negotiating the matter between the parties and the issue has been solved. The attacker paid full compensation and there are no more disputes between Mujengan and Marauders.

If you "help" a victim by using military force but yet do not attack your own guys then by all means explain how you can do so if it is your own guys breaking the rules.

Secondly, I'll allow you time to explain the second comment. Since in this thread there never has been a dispute between our alliances. A post was made to make the public aware of a major change that had occurred in a fashion most would consider "Silently". Afterward players asked questions since there is no way your words can hold any meaning if TOC members go against them. Feel free to show "proof" of this full compensation since you seem to think this thread is about something different then I do because I seriously doubt any compensation has been made.

This isn't has nothing to do with Marauders. This has to with a raid policy.

Kenzu wrote:Introduction:

This policy is in effect from the day it will be signed.


Aderan Raiding Policy

To raid units, only raid attacks are allowed.

Massing someone to crush defenses and steal units is from now on FORBIDDEN!
This means that assault, sabotage and assassination missions are not allowed!

Explanation:

Even if a player didn't log in for 14 days, you are not allowed to mass his defenses to raid his untrained.
And it doesn't matter if he has 50.000 untrained units or 500.000.

Defenses gradually fall, and if a player stays inactive long enough, they will fall to zero one day.

This policy will save players who went inactive for a week or even longer from much damage.
Afterall if too much is destroyed, they might decide to leave the game.

EDIT: corrected grammar mistakes

------------------------------------------------------------------

World Republic Stance

I, Keinutnai, leader of World Republic sign Aderan Raiding Policy on behalf of World Republic.
If anyone masses a player with the intention to steal untrained, he will have to pay a compensation to the victim, equal to 100% of all lost resources (military units lost, weapons lost, untrained). World Republic will help victims get their resources back. If the attacker doesn't want to pay back, his action are an equivalent to a declaration of war, and thus World Republic will fight back.

If you became victim of a massing raid, please contact WR leadership. We will help you!

_________________________________________________________________

Lord Ishurue wrote:

Kenzu wrote:Introduction:

This policy is in effect from the day it will be signed.


Aderan Raiding Policy

To raid units, only raid attacks are allowed.

Massing someone to crush defenses and steal units is from now on FORBIDDEN!
This means that assault, sabotage and assassination missions are not allowed!

Explanation:

Even if a player didn't log in for 14 days, you are not allowed to mass his defenses to raid his untrained.
And it doesn't matter if he has 50.000 untrained units or 500.000.

Defenses gradually fall, and if a player stays inactvie long enough, they will fall to zero one day.

This policy will save players who went inactive for a week or even longer from much damage.
Afterall if too much is destroyed, they might decide to

------------------------------------------------------------------

World Republic Stance

I, Keinutnai, leader of World Republic sign Aderan Raiding Policy on behalf of World Republic.
If anyone masses a player with the intention to steal untrained, he will have to pay a compensation to the victim, equal to 100% of all lost resources (military units lost, weapons lost, untrained). World Republic will help victims get their resources back. If the attacker doesn't want to pay back, his action are an equivalent to a declaration of war, and thus World Republic will fight back.

If you became victim of a massing raid, please contact WR leadership. We will help you!

no longer cool with Aderan Raid Policy since a long time .

_________________________________________________________________

Kenzu, in case you have missed this, carefully reread the above again, then you will find the true issue at hand here. one half of your empire is dead set upon defending this policy, the other half has said it will no longer abide by it, We just want to know what happens now?

funny thing is that this raiding policy came into being during a time in which Ian indicated that The Imperium Empire was of much the same mind.
Do they still feel the same and will they help smaller players that are massed/raided? Or have they changed their mind? It would be a refreshing change to see TIE on the same side as WR for a change.
If all major alliances except WR think mass-raiding is acceptable on the other hand, I don't see how WR is in a position to enforce this, except against lone wolves.

Jiro wrote:funny thing is that this raiding policy came into being during a time in which Ian indicated that The Imperium Empire was of much the same mind.
Do they still feel the same and will they help smaller players that are massed/raided? Or have they changed their mind? It would be a refreshing change to see TIE on the same side as WR for a change.
If all major alliances except WR think mass-raiding is acceptable on the other hand, I don't see how WR is in a position to enforce this, except against lone wolves.

Good point you have...

And another question is why should we enforce it, if Imperium will not enforce it. As we all know Imperium also agreed on it.

This situation is obviously a copmlicated one, and some might say that since one alliance left the treaty, then everyone else can leave it too.

Of course the best thing would be if we all found consent.

TIE never signed it that I saw. I know they had similar ideals but they never posted on this.

Just as TM has similar ideals but would never sign something like this.

Kenzu wrote:And another question is why should we enforce it, if Imperium will not enforce it. As we all know Imperium also agreed on it.

This situation is obviously a copmlicated one, and some might say that since one alliance left the treaty, then everyone else can leave it too.

Of course the best thing would be if we all found consent.

ok Kenzu, someone in any of the other alliances can confirm or deny what I am about to tell you...
I have reread this thread over & over, & nowhere was this supported by anyone other than T.o.C. by what I read in this thread, Only You of World Republic, & Ishurue of Mujengan signed onto this policy. So I honestly do not understand how you can make the claim that you have, ( maybe Ian can clear this up). & seriously, what do your last statement mean? find consent for what? you to give a yes or no answer when that is all that is needed?

seaborgium wrote:TIE never signed it that I saw. I know they had similar ideals but they never posted on this.

Just as TM has similar ideals but would never sign something like this.

there is no need to post it,
As far as I know ian agreed to the policy on behalf of Imperium

ian wrote:I m glad to see the above policies implemented by FIRE and World Republic - they are strong steps in the right direction

TIE's policy is as always - massing's other than for the purpose of war are wrong - so very similar to the above (i.e. such as massing someone in order to farm/ raid them being wrong).

also here is a public statement that they are against it.

I asked ian to make a public statement whether Imperium signed the treaty or not.
If it's not confirmed that Imperium signed the treaty, then WR might consider withdrawing from the treaty as well. Afterall treaty held by only 1 alliance is not reasonable.

Kenzu, lets be very clear here.

The only reason you & LI created this thread was because I threatened T.O.C with war if you ever did a repeat of your massing of a innocent player like Mujengen did to Inox (resulting in the Lords of Legends alliance merging with The Imperium to avoid future TOC attacks).

Your response? Create this thread and pledge to do what your pledged in the opening topic - mainly to not mass players to raid them, with WR pledging to defend any player who contacts them who is a mass-raid victim... going as far to say you d take such a mass-raid as a declaration of war against WR.

The Imperium never signed this treaty, ever. We welcomed T.O.C signing it because we felt you can't be trusted to act in a acceptable manner with regard to the rest of the server if you aren't bound to something - a point proven by what happened to Inox, and further reinforced by Mujengen's secretly withdrawing from this treaty without telling anyone & now your pathetic attempts to back out of this treaty because its inconvenient for you.

I ll clarify it for anyone left in any doubt then: The Imperium never signed this treaty because to this very daywe ve never (as a organisation/alliance) massed a player in order to farm or raid them. We have no need to bind ourselves to not do something we ve never done before & have a moral stance of not doing in the future.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On the other hand, this treaty pretty much sums up T.O.C:

1.) Brought about in the first place by T.O.C aggression against Innocent players.

2.) Secretly pulled out of by Mujengen, hoping noone notices.

3.) Forgotten about by World Republic.

4.) World Republic's pledges meaning twisted as having a different meaning when the message as clear (and literally in) black & white and personally made by World Republic causes them a inconvenience as it potentially shows them for what they are (Spineless & Can't be trusted).

5.) The treaty considering being pulled out of by World Republic because its the quick & easy thing to do - rather than doing the right thing I.e. such as honouring their pledge for ALL actions committed in breach of it while they WERE a signatory to the treaty... and merely saying as of now future breaches = irrelevant since they ll no longer be a signatory.

& In the future:

6.) The treaty pulled out of by World Republic because it was inconvenient, using the excuse everyone else (everyone else = Mujengen btw) had pulled out of it as well... even if the original "moral value" this treaty was supposedly signed based on... actually still remains.

So in summary then:

Pledged, broken, forgotten, twisted, abandoned & broken again.

Thats a summary of T.O.C's dealings with regard to this treaty... and can in large part be applied to basically all of T.O.C's other dealings...

Since none, Mujengan, nor Imperium want to follow this treaty, World Republic withdraws from this treaty as well.

This doesn't mean that World Republic doesn't share the views of this treaty.

World Republic official stance remains the same, namely we don't support mass raiding of players, because it discourages players who have been mass-raided to continue playing after being away.

World Republic might continue to help victims to retrieve lost resources after being mass-raided, but is not bound to do so.
Obviously any hostile mission done against WR members may result in the massing of the attacker. So I recommend everyone to contact me before making such horrible mistake.

Since this treaty has been abandoned, this thread is closed.

unlocked per request

Kenzu wrote:Since none, Mujengan, nor Imperium want to follow this treaty, World Republic withdraws from this treaty as well.

This doesn't mean that World Republic doesn't share the views of this treaty.

World Republic official stance remains the same, namely we don't support mass raiding of players, because it discourages players who have been mass-raided to continue playing after being away.

World Republic might continue to help victims to retrieve lost resources after being mass-raided, but is not bound to do so.
Obviously any hostile mission done against WR members may result in the massing of the attacker. So I recommend everyone to contact me before making such horrible mistake.

Since this treaty has been abandoned, this thread is closed.

Kenzu its a war game haven't admin ruined it enough with his attack update and the trade update to let WR and Muj continue to ruin it with stuff like this?

Nimras you are a bit behind lol.
This wasn't about the policy itself.
It was about who signed it, backed out and then who was left, if they would stand by there word.

While the issue never did get solved. At least this issue is now put to rest.

To be honest I don't really care who signed or who didn't.

However I do wish that they would get things right and make up their minds as to what they are talking about.

The Title here is Aderan Raiding Policy and as such it gives the impression that it is part of the game and the way the first post is written reinforces this.

Additionally Kenzu signed on behalf or World Republic and made no mention of TOC.

Ideally from how things have developed the title should have read World Republic Raiding Policy or World Republic Raiding Treaty depending on the intent Kenzu had when he first posted it.

There is a major difference between a policy and a treaty and they are not interchangeable.

A policy is a statement that does not require the consent or signatures of others

A treaty on the other hand is an agreement between those parties that sign it

To help clarify I have included some definitions below and hope that you will get it right in the future so that confusion can be eliminated.

Treaty

[tree-tee] –noun, plural -ties.
1. a formal agreement between two or more states in reference to peace, alliance, commerce, or other international relations.

2. the formal document embodying such an international agreement.

3. any agreement or compact.


Policy

[pol-uh-see] –noun, plural -cies.

1. a definite course of action adopted for the sake of expediency, facility, etc.: We have a new company policy.

2. a course of action adopted and pursued by a government, ruler, political party, etc.: our nation's foreign policy.

3. action or procedure conforming to or considered with reference to prudence or expediency: It was good policy to consent.

4. sagacity; shrewdness: Showing great policy, he pitted his enemies against one another.

I came up with Aderan Raiding Policy because my intention was that after 3 strongest alliances sign it, the other will follow.

However even if only these 3 alliances followed it, it was the majority of the server, and thus an aderan wide policy, since anyone who would mass-raid any of these 3 alliances will get in serious trouble and signing the treaty provides more benefits.

Also to make it clear. WR stance was, since the signing of the treaty that WR will help victims get the lost resources back. It's false interpretation if someone things that helping is equal to compensating, or massing someone in revenge. Our definition of helping is negotiating. Of course if we decide to help more, then we will mass the person who commited a mass-raid if he doesn't compensate in time.

Nimras wrote:

Kenzu wrote:Since none, Mujengan, nor Imperium want to follow this treaty, World Republic withdraws from this treaty as well.

This doesn't mean that World Republic doesn't share the views of this treaty.

World Republic official stance remains the same, namely we don't support mass raiding of players, because it discourages players who have been mass-raided to continue playing after being away.

World Republic might continue to help victims to retrieve lost resources after being mass-raided, but is not bound to do so.
Obviously any hostile mission done against WR members may result in the massing of the attacker. So I recommend everyone to contact me before making such horrible mistake.

Since this treaty has been abandoned, this thread is closed.

Kenzu its a war game haven't admin ruined it enough with his attack update and the trade update to let WR and Muj continue to ruin it with stuff like this?

If you want WR to sign the treaty again, convince Imperium and Mujengan to sign it.