Poll Results

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Re: Poll Results

Post by Paladius on Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:50 pm

@Nigatsu_aka, To defend TIE, the alliance as a whole didn't cheat it was only a certain few who used the bug.I assume by you saying "they are doing their best to bring the cheaters back" that your talking about Ian arguing with admin about banning vesper. I never once read where Ian said he condoned cheating, his problem is that other people who had seperate accounts didn't get punished. And that it is unfair to ban one and not the others.
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Re: Poll Results

Post by seaborgium on Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:59 pm

Paladius - I will defend Nigatsu on this one. While yes when someone buys an account, takes the items off it, they don't log back into it. Also they were currently serving a sentence handed down by admin. They get the items off the account , and then let it float or put it on vac mode. I know i bought 1 other account took what I wanted, then I asked admin if i could just leave it float or if I had to vac it. He said it was fine to let it float.

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Re: Poll Results

Post by Nigatsu_Aka on Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:04 pm

Paladius wrote:@Nigatsu_aka, To defend TIE, the alliance as a whole didn't cheat it was only a certain few who used the bug.I assume by you saying "they are doing their best to bring the cheaters back" that your talking about Ian arguing with admin about banning vesper. I never once read where Ian said he condoned cheating, his problem is that other people who had seperate accounts didn't get punished. And that it is unfair to ban one and not the others.

I'm not going to enter this debate.
I'm going to repeat myself a thousand time... ban the cheaters, or don't allow them to play with the same accounts on the first rule breach. On the 2nd breach, ban them forever.

Admin is using the milder way by not taking severe punishments like I would prefer for example because he doesn't want to chase away players from the game but because he is doing that, some people act like smartasses and abuse his kindness, practically mocking his patience and intelligence (see what vesper did when he was discovered and after he was punished). That... and then Ian arguing why he should not be banned... how the hell he is not condoning cheating when the bug was intended to be kept a secret in TIE? Please don't insult my intelligence.


Last edited by Nigatsu_Aka on Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Poll Results

Post by seaborgium on Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:07 pm

It wasn't only kept in TIE. Others knew also, so don't try using that argument. 3 of the people were in TIE that used it. But 2 of the 4 have posted what admin had said as far as usage.

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Re: Poll Results

Post by Nomad on Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:16 pm

your statement is a bit off, 3 of the 4 "punished" were TIE. Many used it and were not punished at all because of various legitamate reasons (such as 1 time use). Many more knew it existed as well, how else could they have reported something they didnt know existed?
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Re: Poll Results

Post by Admin on Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:32 pm

Yeh fyi, out of the 3-4 people who reported it, all except one were not in tie.
So there kinda was a pattern ....

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Re: Poll Results

Post by Paladius on Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:22 am

Nigatsu_Aka wrote:
Paladius wrote:@Nigatsu_aka, To defend TIE, the alliance as a whole didn't cheat it was only a certain few who used the bug.I assume by you saying "they are doing their best to bring the cheaters back" that your talking about Ian arguing with admin about banning vesper. I never once read where Ian said he condoned cheating, his problem is that other people who had seperate accounts didn't get punished. And that it is unfair to ban one and not the others.

I'm not going to enter this debate.
I'm going to repeat myself a thousand time... ban the cheaters, or don't allow them to play with the same accounts on the first rule breach. On the 2nd breach, ban them forever.

Admin is using the milder way by not taking severe punishments like I would prefer for example because he doesn't want to chase away players from the game but because he is doing that, some people act like smartasses and abuse his kindness, practically mocking his patience and intelligence (see what vesper did when he was discovered and after he was punished). That... and then Ian arguing why he should not be banned... how the hell he is not condoning cheating when the bug was intended to be kept a secret in TIE? Please don't insult my intelligence.
Im only saying what i understood the argument to be about , im not trying to insult your intelligence. Believe what you want to believe, i don't really care.
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Re: Poll Results

Post by ian on Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:29 am

Admin wrote:Yeh fyi, out of the 3-4 people who reported it, all except one were not in tie.
So there kinda was a pattern ....

I always find it slightly amusing how you never asked just how some of those in The Imperium found out about that bug. Let me tell you how - Universe. I remember back during the *first* Imperium & World Republic war that she knew when WR members would come off PPT. None of us questioned her back then about it - we assumed she had a contact inside World Republic with ingame adviser access. Looking back with hindsight its pretty obvious she knew about the BaseO bug - and it was only a week or 2 just before you started recording BaseO violations that a handful of TIE SHC knew about it. Some of us found out after you found out judging by when you said you started recorded visits to the link.

My point though - is that the BaseO bug existed long before The Imperium found out about it. Universe found out from someone - and unfortunately i don't know who. What i do know however is that (during the first WR/ TIE war) just before The Commonwealth & The Company merged, The Company came under heavy assault by World Republic and Geto-dacii - wiping out 7million income units. Some of those victims were hit near-perfectly - almost as if the enemy knew when they were coming off PPT.

In the following days World Republic and Geto-dacii juggled going on and off PPT - avoiding The Imperium's own strike windows (with our going in and out of PPT) pretty accurately. There were quite a few instances where targets would go onto PPT mere minutes before we were due to come off PPT. Other time's the targets would be waiting online for The Imperium's counter-attack, only to then come online themselves. Thats one of the reasons WR and our enemies escaped annihilation - that The Imperium's efforts were frustrated by the enemies ability to "predict" when we became vulnerable, and to avoid when we intended to attack.

You can say The Imperium was the main abuser of the bug - but we weren't. You failed to catch the real abusers - those who used it for months and months on end, and those who's actions may well have been responsible for millions of UU and billions of kuwal wiped out (almost all of which was The Imperium's). I KNOW the bug existed back then - looking back in hindsight at how Universe knew when some WR player's would come off PPT - and i d be prepared to bet that she found out off someone - and that that person had some sort of link to WR & Geto-Dacii.

I would also point out that the majority of those in The Imperium who knew about the bug, didn't take a interest in it. I ll admit the whole not being interested (and literally not knowing/understanding what some people were doing) approach allowed things to be exploited like they were - but don't for a second try and imply that "cheating" is condoned within The Imperium, or that we are the main abusers. Most of the SHC, myself included - were in the dark about the BaseO bug being exploited on a everyday basis. Did we know about the link? Yes. Did most of the SHC use it? No. Did most of the SHC simply let it slip to the back of their heads and basically forget about it? Yes.

The Imperium as an organisation never used the link to our advantage. Ever. The same can't be said for other's - which i ll point out to you that at least one of the people who you *eventually* caught - Damgood- happened to be directly involved in the first WR/ Imperium conflict and was heavily involved in launching precisely timed strikes against The Imperium (costing us 7million income units). This was about the same time that Universe started using the link - so the bug existed back then, and she almost certainly found out from someone.

But hey - lets all focus upon The Imperium and how its supposedly the main cheater... and forget about the fact it only found out about the BaseO bug from external parties - with those external parties knowing about it at least as early as October 2009 (when Universe first learnt about it).

If we really want to have a nice juicy discussion and start throwing allegations out there - how about my suggesting that Admin's Brother - Kenzu - and his alliance may have *unknowingly* (i don't for a second believe Kenzu would willingly use it - Kenzu's many things, but he is a decent honest player when it comes to game rules) gained an advantage from exploitations of this BaseO bug during their war against The Imperium when Geto-dacii (with Damgood in) joined - which may well have played a large part in costing The Imperium 7million untrained units.

Hell - anyone who likes a good conspiracy could even start throwing allegations out there that this wasn't a bug at all - but a deliberate "mistake" by admin which just so happened to be found by an external party, used in a war benefitting his brother's alliance in damaging The Imperium - who i m sure we all remember admin's "concerns" about its effects on the server which he posted when The Imperium was originally announced. Damaging the leading alliance would certainly help alleviate some of those concerns. Of course... human nature being what it is, somewhere someone must have let knowledge of the "bug" slip, resulting in the knowledge spreading - untill eventually that knowledge landed in the hands of The Imperium... at which point just a matter of a weekish, in some cases a matter days after it's arriving in Imperium hands - admin "cooincidentally" decided to start recording "exploits" of the bug - which just so happened to catch mainly The Imperium, and let previous exploiters go "unnoticed".

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I of course don't believe such a conspiracy. I think the BaseO bug was a genuine mistake on admin's part. But since people seem so happy to jump to conclusions about The Imperium - despite (and this includes admin as well) not having even the slightest clue of what was and was not discussed concerning the BaseO bug, or lack there-off - then why not throw that out there for equally idiotic blind discussion and debate?

People seem happy enough to view the BaseO bug as mainly a Imperium-exploit... but as far as i can tell not once has a single person stopped to consider the facts - and those facts are that the BaseO bug existed *long* before The Imperium learnt of it, that the bug was discovered outside The Imperium, and that the first time (to my knowledge) the bug was confirmed as existing was by Universe (who at the time noone else in TIE had even the slightest clue about its existence) during the first World Republic/ Imperium War - In october 2009. Universe wasn't particuarly gifted with coding as far as i can tell - so its probably a good bet someone else happened to stumble upon the bug. That person was outside The Imperium - and its entirely possible and plausible given at least one of the people admin caught - Damgood-that the BaseO bug was used (unknowingly by probably 99% of the people involved) against The Imperium to devestating effect. The timing of its first "confirmed use" being in that war supports that as well.

So, can everyone just cut the crap about The Imperium? Most of you are completely clueless (admin included) about what happened in The Imperium with regard to the BaseO - and in all seriousness, The Imperium was probably one of the last major alliance's who *some* of its member's found out about it. One thing is clear though - the bug was being exploited long before TIE learnt of it, and given the proximity of admin's starting his records and TIE's learning of the bug - what we did (or lack thereof) with the bug is generally mainly known and recorded by admin. What other's who knew before us did with it is not known - and never will be known. But if that bug was used for military applications - which was where its greatest use and advantage lay - then its a fair bet to say it will have likely been used against The Imperium (since we were in every single war/ engagement before it became known to admin).
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Re: Poll Results

Post by seaborgium on Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:55 am

Ian you forgot when damgood teamed up with Fire in there hits on us.

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Re: Poll Results

Post by ian on Sun Apr 18, 2010 2:31 am

seaborgium wrote:Ian you forgot when damgood teamed up with Fire in there hits on us.

Oh yeah - there's that as well.

So... basically all this "Imperium are a bunch of cheats" crap is a complete load of crap.

Facts are:

- The Imperium knew about the BaseO bug, but never went to war while we knew about the bug before it was removed by admin.
- World Republic & Geto-dacii fought a war against us with at least one person who knew (and failed to report) the bug - potentially using the BaseO to help their efforts (and potentially resulting in 7million Imperium Miners being wiped out)
- FIRE had at least one person who knew (and failed to report) the bug and who fought at least one war (albeit very temporary against The Imperium) in the period before the bug was removed by admin.

This isn't just a Imperium thing. Infact we are the only major power who can claim to be able to *garantee* that the BaseO bug was never used to benefit us during a alliance-war situation - simply because we never knew about the bug at the same time we ended up fighting a war. All other major power's had at least one player actively involved in conflicts (all against The Imperium) who *did* know about the BaseO bug and *could* therefore have used it (even if the alliance leadership did not know) to gain an unfair advantage.

But.. of course big evil nasty cheating Imperium is the problem... never mind that ALL other major powers - including one led by admin's *own* brother - has had some link to the BaseO bug and therefore there is every possibility knowingly or unknowingly gained a significant advantage - which could have been used in time of war (ironically against The Imperium). At least The Imperium never fought a war while some of its members knew about the bug (exception being Universe... who's information on World Republic was never used since we already had a spy who was an ingame adviser during both our wars against them Very Happy). The Imperium may well have been the main victims of the BaseO bug - so its a bit rich to be trying to accuse us of being the main exploiters.
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Re: Poll Results

Post by Admin on Sun Apr 18, 2010 3:58 am

seriously i dont get why you people keep coming back onto topics I felt have been closed.

I mean the whole discussion is interesting and whatnot, but it's simply how most people will think. People like to interpret more things into events than there really are.
Although yes, keep going, I might regret that I haven't simply permabanned everyone who I know knew or has used the bug and hasn't reported it.
Because be sure that's what I'll do the next time. No discussions, simply a ban and locking of all topics related to that case trying to argue it's a too harsh punishment.

I didn't read full post of ian now but caught up on a few points of his
About how universe found out: Dunno, simple luck would be possible, cos that's how one person in FIRE who reported it told me how they found about it.
And I know about her use of it and passing that info to you in the TIE/WR war (however I am ok with buying the story that you guys didn't know exactly how she found out that info, simply thinking she used spies in WR, I do truly believe that ian and at least a few others in TIE HC didn't know about it back then. I have no reason to believe that what you are saying is false)

About dodging your attacks: I got it on pretty good authority that no one in WR knew or used it, still that BaseO would hardly be helpful in avoiding your strikes, partially if used, but nowhere near to the extent you are making it appear ....

About GD using it: Well even though it's likely that damgood knew about it and used it against TIE in the war. The way "how" it was used was different in TIE but the end results were the same. Increased intelligence
Still in that case it's interesting that no one else used it in GD later after the war, isn't it?

There's more but I have better things to do than to fuel, reason with or discredit misconceptions, theories and "facts" through a number of ways .... (food for thought for some of you, you know who you are)

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Re: Poll Results

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