Various Worker updates

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Various Worker updates

Post by Admin on Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:44 pm

As of now the three main units to generate income are the worker, priest and labourer. The only difference between them being the amount of money they produce.

1) However later the option will be introduced that the increased income the worker and the labourer offer will be connected to a risk. These two will become killable (leaving the priest as the one and only unit stack untouchable by the enemy) the labourer more easily than the worker.
Imagine it like the priests having close and prepared shelters in case of attacks ready for them. The workers in their factories have bunkers but sometimes they run for the wrong bunker which is already full or they get warned too late. The labourers who work generally in more dangerous places such as mines and open sites offering very little protection from enemy attacks.
This will give players the option of balancing risk vs profit but with the labourer producing not even 50% more than the priest still leaves people who are unable to take the risk a relative ability to compete.

2) The second update will be more focused on supporting the growth of small players and limiting the growth of large players without the senseless limitations of unit purchases or plagues killing units. Every day the median army size will be taken and from that a formula created linking army size and income production per unit.
The gist of it is that the larger your army size than the median the less income per unit you will generate and the smaller you are the more you will generate. However the formula will be structured that buying one extra unit should not decrease your income (however it doesn't mean it will increase by a lot either) and the decreasing and increasing effect will be degressive (the further from the median you are the less of an increase/decrease per unit you are able to notice).
The real world metaphor is that the reduced and increased incomes arise from the development of better methods and technologies which allow for better organization of the realms resources and manpower. In the middle ages it was impossible to keep track of all the things modern institutions can keep track of, like health history, crimes commited, etc. Throughout the last centuries this became increasingly easier. The same principle applies here. Smaller realms benefit from the know how of larger realms and are able to micromanage their efforts on a much deeper level due to the limited size of these realms. Larger realms need to divert more effort into the administrative levels in order to "keep the machine running".

Halaryel wrote:Changed name.

priest were farmers. then worker, and then labourers
Now, farmers, worker, miners.


Last edited by Admin on Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:25 am; edited 5 times in total
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Re: Various Worker updates

Post by Rojo on Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:16 am

concerning 1)
what about miners?

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Re: Various Worker updates

Post by Nigatsu_Aka on Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:20 am

I have

Farmers 5,000 Kuwal
Workers 7,500 Kuwal
Miners 10,000 Kuwal

I keep hearing about priests all over, even in the help... but i don`t have any...
I think that you changed the names, or customized them for each race... it`s confusing... :S
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Re: Various Worker updates

Post by Halaryel on Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:01 am

Changed name.

priest were farmers. then worker, and then labourers
hom nay, farmers, worker, miners.

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Re: Various Worker updates

Post by Admin on Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:41 am

1) will get released on 1st march with a new attack option.

Your Army invades the enemy lands and kills 0.3% of Tier 3 income units (miners) and 0.1% of Tier 2 income units (Workers).

Just like farm or raid or hunt assassins mission, the objective is not to destroy the enemy defense but merely to occupy it until your army is finished with the rampage.
Consequently if you want to cut your losses while doing this better remove the defense.
Also don't think that you will be able to go into the realm with only 1 unit armed with a knife and still expect to kill many enemy units.

Notice given so far in advance due to the severe effect of the update on gameplay.
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Re: Various Worker updates

Post by rflash on Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:57 am

I think the % aren't good.

The difference between Tier 2 and Tier 3 units is 10 Kuwal / turn (16.6%) but the death rate is 3 times bigger.


10 attacks will kill 0.9% of workers and 2.6% of miners
50 attacks will kill 4.8% of workers and 14.7% of miners
100 attacks will kill 9.5% of workers and 26.8% of miners

This attack should come with a very high cost of Supply Turns.

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Re: Various Worker updates

Post by Admin on Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:16 pm

% are still up for discussion, there's (currently) enough time to decide on some changes
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Re: Various Worker updates

Post by Halaryel on Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:47 pm

OH well you know i am 100% against killing income units...

You are looking to get a game where top account can not sit small accounts, this kind of tool is only for bigger account or wealthier alliances to leverage enemies. Also an alliance with more peoples could just have much more AT and destroy some chosen enemies.

What the purpose of it? what does it bring to the game? how does it is fair for weakers against biggers? Also it's very aggressive against lonewolves, since they are going to be kicked out of the game asap. Only strong empire with monopoly on the game can arise if everything is destroyable.

edit (because i hate when people put probleme on table but no solution): about solutions, I would prefer an attack that TEMPORARY reduce the income of the enemy.

For example : each successfull strike would reduce the Tier 2 unit by 0.25% and Tier 3unit by 1% for the next 24hours.

About coding it, since it could be ressource consuming. Add a second field with number of miners, workers; this field would yield the current active siege attack total. Add a table that hold all currently ongoing Siege attacks (player_id,number of hit the current turn, number of turn remaining), every turn lower number of turn remaining by 1. Then for every siege attack removed reduce the number of siege attack.

For example : select Farmers, Workers * (1 - (min(0, siege_attack)/400)) as workers, Miners * (1 - (min(0, siege_attack)/100)) as Miners

in database you store
players (id, farmers, wrokers, miners, siege)
siege_attacks (player_id,number,turn)

upon successfull attack you increase the number concerning the player id (if an entry exist with 48 turns, or create it) and you increase the player siege value

OH; if you are already calculating income only when a player is changing is units count (which i highly doubt because player gain up everyturn) of course the income would be modified by the routine that check for siege_attacks table.

regards.

ps: yes i am lonewolf, i feel concerned about this, but i am much more concerned about a tool that would give an alliance the key to destroy everything that does resist.


Last edited by Halaryel on Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:03 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Various Worker updates

Post by Nigatsu_Aka on Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:00 pm

Farmers can`t be killed.
So, in this perspective, if you are a lonewolf concerned only about your economy (not a warmonger), you can still have miners and workers for a better productivity and not risk anything.
If you are an agressive lonewolf, who toys with the big and with the empires, practically someone who is at war all the time, it`s logical for his industrial based economy (miners, workers) to suffer. So he`ll only rely on the income from agriculture (farmers).

As Admin said in a post somewhere... there has to be a risk on every path that you choose. This update allows this risk and a player will have to elaborate more his strategies and plan on long term.

And another good thing, is the lack of lifers. Yes, there is a cost in untraining units (3%)... but if you know that you`ll face such a risk (of having your economy anihilated) you can still save 97% of it by reconverting from industry to agriculture.
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Re: Various Worker updates

Post by Admin on Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:03 pm

1) Farmers are untouchable.
If you want to be unhitable train farmers.
If you want more income be sure you want to bear the risk

2) lonewolves will only get kicked if they annoy the wrong people. just like with any attack form, even if you end up with 0 def (which in most cases needs to get massed first) the attacker will not be able to kill anything without paying a decent sum of both Kuwal, AT's and ST's first.
And considering wasting ST's means they cannot farm or raid as much it even further cuts into their growth.

long story short, you don't attack unless you have a reason because you'll be spending resources

+ if 2 alliances fight the weaker will have an incentive to surrender instead of keep getting pounded

or they can cut down the losses by simply untraining some of their miners and workers and training them into farmers.
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Re: Various Worker updates

Post by Halaryel on Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:10 pm

From being lonewolf in other game for like 6Month now, i can testimony that even if you are not to mess with anybody, not have any officers, not farm anybody, you DO have enemies .... For example those jealous peoples, or people that want action and look at who can bring some fun and have a lot to destroy, or very active aliance that are looking for no oponement.


i've added a suggestion to my last post, i suggest it is changed to a siege attack, that lower income TEMPORARY but dont kill any units. It is already very costly (3% of unit) to move units from one kind to another. If you want to be able to keep some form of economy i cant imagine a player having only Miners; maybe raise the % to make it more dreadfull.

But kill units, whatever the cost it, is too easy to wipe out one player or a group of player from the game and destroy monthes of game.

If a big aliance get the monopoly over the game they will be able to keep only miners while pounding others and threatening so they get mostly farmers, that's up to 40% more income to other...too much power in hand and a power only strongest will achieve. (and they will).


edit: about cutting the looses. We both know that usually when you get massed you are not online.... So the oponement has planned to destroy you entirely, expecting on being able to untrain stuff before the hit is serious bad play...

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Re: Various Worker updates

Post by Admin on Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:17 pm

then only train farmers and you don't have to worry about loosing income units

farmers 50 income per turn
miners 70 income per turn (plus you wait over 5 days to get back the increased training cost first, so you only start earning more after 5 days)

it's not like miners would produce 100% more
even by having only farmers you can still compete
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Re: Various Worker updates

Post by rflash on Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:22 pm

You keep forgetting about supply turns.

It's not possible for an alliance to get the monopoly and act like Gods ..... they will eventually annoy enough people who will come together and because they'll have 3-4 times more STs they will be able to win, even if they have smaller accounts.

If 10 smaller accounts get together they can mass a top account, kill miners+workers (if any), assassinate most of his army and destroy most of his weapons ..... the buttom line this will make the top account an ex-top account.

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Re: Various Worker updates

Post by Halaryel on Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:13 pm

Siege would achieve same result (reduce enemy income) while at war. The probleme is that - beside supply turn - there is no limit to how bad you can cripple somebody.

I guess the limit will be the cost (in supply turn)... but since you will probably mass ones defense before doing such move, it will not be very costly to do it.

Maybe it would be safe to wait until APRIL to see how the supply turn are used in war...

And another thing, having a server where you can loose everything is not very appealing... i would think only a small percent of population are KILLER type.

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Re: Various Worker updates

Post by Admin on Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:18 pm

Halaryel wrote:I guess the limit will be the cost (in supply turn)... but since you will probably mass ones defense before doing such move, it will not be very costly to do it.
Response =>
Admin wrote:Also don't think that you will be able to go into the realm with only 1 unit armed with a knife and still expect to kill many enemy units.


Halaryel wrote:And another thing, having a server where you can loose everything is not very appealing... i would think only a small percent of population are KILLER type.
Response =>
Admin wrote:Your Army invades the enemy lands and kills 0.3% of Tier 3 income units (miners) and 0.1% of Tier 2 income units (Workers).
Repeating for the 4th time. Farmers are untouchable!
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Re: Various Worker updates

Post by rflash on Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:28 pm

The cost will be quite high. On average the most powerful forms of attack cost 15 ST (all assassination are 15, assault 20 and sab 10).

This will be at least at the same level .... so saving ST for 1 week will allow you to do a maximum of 22 attacks.

Plus you have more then 1 month since this is released ..... even if you have only miners you can start training farmers and you're safe ...... in march your army will be 6-10 times bigger then now so miners will be a small %.

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Re: Various Worker updates

Post by Magnus on Sun Apr 26, 2009 3:38 pm

lmao I will help and I am new affraid Farmers are untouchable clown
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