Weapon system rework

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Re: Weapon system rework

Post by Nomad on Sun Jan 17, 2010 7:45 pm

Sandwalker wrote:Humans were the shit in The Federation. Vulcans & Company were just limpers that had no right to plunder romulan booty.

At the height of their empire, the dinosaurs completely dominated 100% of the world's surface. They're still extinct.

Please don't bring nationalist crap in here (usa or gb, doesn't matter). Please.

A-MEN

love the dinosaur one best LOL
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Re: Weapon system rework

Post by Admin on Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:02 pm

Next person to say anything not related to this update will get a 1 day suspension, thank you very much for following the no spam rules.

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Re: Weapon system rework

Post by Jiro on Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:53 am

I tried something (which is what the test server is for I guess.) My apologies to the one I targeted, if you need reparation money, let me know.
I changed my tactic and made sure that my attack power was better than his. I was able to mass him to 25% of his original strength while losing less than 50% of my own in 21 assaults. Also, losses in absolute UU were less for me than for him.
Once he reached a defence of 275M, I was able to raid him profitably for 36k UU at a cost of 4k trained attack units + weapons (0,9G Kuwal profit).
It also leaves the target in a better position than in the old system, because he still has a sizeable defence and so is protected from people with a much smaller strike and better protected from me because raiding him will become less profitable sooner than if he had no defence. Also, I shudder to think of the repair casts for raiding for my strike in the old system.
I find it hard to foresee the consequences of switching, but I am slightly positive.
As for numbers:
costs for me
action unit cost meunit cost himKuwal cost me (in 10^9 Kuwal)Kuwal cost him (in 10^9 Kuwalbalance
assault43818
5141733,1928,69-4,5
raid3980717-0,90,41,3
As you can see, assaulting him still hurt me more than him in Kuwal. I don't have a problem with that: tearing down someone's defence should be something that comes at a cost. The raiding was profitable enough.
Also, this was something I could do on my own, not needing teamwork. So this benefits lone players at least.
Can someone add a cost estimate for massing a 1,2G defence player on main (defence has Battle Tanks) to a level where you can raid him profitably (230k UU present)?

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Re: Weapon system rework

Post by Admin on Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:20 am

You can do that estimate on an excel spreadsheet, considering the only thing you have to calculate is unit losses

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Re: Weapon system rework

Post by ioz on Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:59 am

One question.. do you still plan on implementing the weapons upkeep?
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Re: Weapon system rework

Post by Admin on Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:46 am

definitely

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Re: Weapon system rework

Post by ioz on Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:10 pm

Maybe you have explained the logic behind this update (the weapon upkeep thingy) but I must have missed it and even so... why on earth would you implement such a system? It's unrealistic and hurtful to everyone as I see it.
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Re: Weapon system rework

Post by Admin on Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:10 pm

how is maintenance of weaponry unrealistic?

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Re: Weapon system rework

Post by Nigatsu_Aka on Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:22 pm

Perhaps that tanks and artillery repair themselves... dunno. (j/k)


On a side note:
Too bad that you don't have different types (and names subsequently) of weapons for each rase, with it's pros and cons.

For example:
- organic grown weapons for hualu with self healing ability, weaker but cheaper
- robotic weapons, for miraya, very powerfull, but also very expensive
- sintezised weapons for daning, powerful but expensive in maintainance
- energetic weapons for kyora

Dunno... this is just a scrap paranthesis an idea thrown away, would it worth to be implemented?
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Re: Weapon system rework

Post by ioz on Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:40 pm

It's unrealistic to have maintenance for a knife i guess.

Besides, are we trying to make this game as realistic as possible or enjoyable for players? This just seems like an update you are making because you think it's cool without being directly stressed by its effect as a player.

Seems like this update, like others, doesn't really NEED to be implemented, a couple of the forum active players agree with you so you've got the "community's support" and we, the ones who simply don't like the updates can't win an argument because our argument is simply "we don't like it" while you come with arguments like it's "more realistic" or "I never liked how it's enough to have a huge def to keep your savings" .

When you take things down to basics, this game shouldn't be realistic. It should have some common sense but this weapon upkeep goes into the land of RPG war-type heroes needing to sleep, eat, drink, have sex and go get a hair cut. What's important is that this game is ENJOYABLE, not accurate since it's a game.

I think it's safe to say that people like the game the way it is now. I think it's also safe to say that there is a bunch of people who dislike the update you are planning and who will try to sell their accounts and leave or give up the game altogether. The arguments for the update are.. you don't like the point system because it is a nuisance for you, you don't like how def > biggest strike = keeping the loot and you think it's more realistic to have upkeep for weapons. These updates don't seem like things that have to happen despite the many players starting to dislike the game.

That whole thing prolly sounds redundant but it would only be due to the sheer frustration I have toward this update. I'll go back to what I said a few pages ago and ask, why fix something that isn't broken??? Why not put all this effort into finishing the buildings, promoting the game, dunno, anything but please don't ruin this experience for us. Yeah, I say US because I'm not alone. This whole discussion is on the forum, a place where only 10% of the players actually visit and less than 5% express their opinion. The game has what? A few hundred active players? How many of them think this update is a good idea? Or doesn't it matter?

Please stop messing with the game and with our nerves and time. Sure, it's our choice to stay or leave but you're not the only one who worked for this game. Each and every single player has put effort into his account. Some more than others but still, it's work. We enjoy doing it but when, after a good number of months of work, a fundamental game feature is changed, especially when it affects the game-play severely, we feel screwed.
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Re: Weapon system rework

Post by Admin on Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:09 pm

ioz wrote:It's unrealistic to have maintenance for a knife i guess.
Even though a knife doesn't last forever either, it will actually HAVE NO UPKEEP.


You did realize though that weapon repairs will be gone, right?
It makes doing instant retaliation on a masser that much easier because you dont need to have billions of kuwal saved in your bank to be able to use your weapons.

That and the obvious fact that repair costs will be gone

Oh yeah and how did you recon that weapon repair points, including the whole "massing" to attack until weapons "disappear" while you can then keep attacking unarmed soldiers and them going into battle knowing they will die without killing anyone, isn't broken actually?


Nigatsu_Aka wrote:On a side note:
Too bad that you don't have different types (and names subsequently) of weapons for each rase, with it's pros and cons.

For example:
- organic grown weapons for hualu with self healing ability, weaker but cheaper
- robotic weapons, for miraya, very powerfull, but also very expensive
- sintezised weapons for daning, powerful but expensive in maintainance
- energetic weapons for kyora

Dunno... this is just a scrap paranthesis an idea thrown away, would it worth to be implemented?
Would take me maybe 2-4 hours tops to rework it into race specific weapons Smile
Another 1-2 hours to fix 90% of the bugs that would pop up

Considering I did have some ideas with the weapons a while ago (and partially ongoing) it'd take a new topic to explain

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Re: Weapon system rework

Post by Kingofshinobis1 on Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:54 pm

Admin wrote:
Nigatsu_Aka wrote:On a side note:
Too bad that you don't have different types (and names subsequently) of weapons for each rase, with it's pros and cons.

For example:
- organic grown weapons for hualu with self healing ability, weaker but cheaper
- robotic weapons, for miraya, very powerfull, but also very expensive
- sintezised weapons for daning, powerful but expensive in maintainance
- energetic weapons for kyora

Dunno... this is just a scrap paranthesis an idea thrown away, would it worth to be implemented?
Would take me maybe 2-4 hours tops to rework it into race specific weapons Smile
Another 1-2 hours to fix 90% of the bugs that would pop up

Considering I did have some ideas with the weapons a while ago (and partially ongoing) it'd take a new topic to explain

I was reading this and though it was not what I was looking for I want to post Razz. Has there been any new ideas for this?

anyways I need to know how much of my income I can have into weapons before I cannot build anymore.

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Re: Weapon system rework

Post by Admin on Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:54 pm

I have a better idea for evolutions i've been working on

miners give you minerals instead of kuwal (territories you can capture will also provide those)
you'll be able to mine a random type out of 3 different minerals in your own realm from miners, the rest you have to get either territories or trade from other people.

each weapon can normally get produced through kuwal cost only.
however each weapon can also be produced in a more powerful version for much less kuwal but requiring a certain amount of minerals.

you can research any combination, like 20% of mineral A, 80% of mineral B.
it'll be up to the players to figure out the most cost effective/most powerful combination for each round, making some minerals more expensive than others to trade (so each round you'd need a different set of resources for the biggest power, but one mineral type might end up being very rare since they will not be mined from as many places as the other two, so people will go for the weaker versions instead)

the only fixed thing will be that every weapon level will require a set total amount of minerals to build 1 unit. All that will vary is how much of each particular mineral you need (you could even use just one type) and the final power of that weapon

It's a mess to set up the first time, but afterwards it requires very little input from me to keep the formulas fresh and new to discover

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Re: Weapon system rework

Post by Keinutnai on Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:11 pm

nice idea but if you make some minerals more valuable than others then players who have the valuable mineral in their realm are at an advantage against other players which isnt fair.
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Re: Weapon system rework

Post by Admin on Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:53 pm

luck is part of skill, besides it's reset, once you're lucky and once you're not

also main realm will not be able to bring in as much resources as the territories so it'll matter how well you're doing on the outside, not on the inside

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Re: Weapon system rework

Post by Nomad on Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:54 am

another problem you may encounter is all or 80/90% of 1 resource ending up in 1 alliance or group. They can control it. Not to mention the smaller the alliance the less trade power and loan wolves are screwed.

Might want to make some type of a TC maket where small quantities can be bought by everyone, or something else of that nature
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Re: Weapon system rework

Post by Kingofshinobis1 on Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:26 am

that sounds cool and all but i still need to know one thing Razz....how much weapon upkeep can I have compared to my income per turn? (original income btw)

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Re: Weapon system rework

Post by Steveanaya on Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:17 am

A lot
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Re: Weapon system rework

Post by Nomad on Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:31 pm

IDK, Admin will have to directly answer, but I myself always assumed it was that your Officer pay and weapons upkeep had to not overtake your normal income, but honestly IDK
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Re: Weapon system rework

Post by Admin on Sat Jul 09, 2011 3:14 pm

Nomad wrote:IDK, Admin will have to directly answer, but I myself always assumed it was that your Officer pay and weapons upkeep had to not overtake your normal income, but honestly IDK
that update's been long gone. all you'll get now is a warning message that you're at risk of having negative income

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Re: Weapon system rework

Post by Void on Sat Jul 09, 2011 4:58 pm

Admin wrote:
Nomad wrote:IDK, Admin will have to directly answer, but I myself always assumed it was that your Officer pay and weapons upkeep had to not overtake your normal income, but honestly IDK
that update's been long gone. all you'll get now is a warning message that you're at risk of having negative income

This explains why I've seen negative incomes awhile ago. It represents debt, which is OK.

About the minerals type of resources mentioned above, they would be OK to have but I will wait for a later date and more suggestions, before adding anything on the matter. Razz

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