Weapon system rework

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Re: Weapon system rework

Post by FarleShadow on Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:16 pm

Or rig weapon to explode in weapons face.

Oh shit, time parado...

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Re: Weapon system rework

Post by Nomad on Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:52 pm

FarleShadow wrote:
Nomad wrote:Well it makes sense to me. Assassins Kill people, not set explosives and rigg weapondry. Besides, after you assasinate soilders the weapons are useless as no one is holding them.

Technically, the easiest way to kill a soldier would be to rig his weapon to explode in his face, as you wouldn't need to directly confront the possibly highly skilled warrior.

I did make that suggestion once, as a way to kill strikes and make sabbing much more useful.
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Re: Weapon system rework

Post by ioz on Fri Jan 08, 2010 8:18 am

To me, this is overcomplicating the game.

The system we have now seems roughly balanced to me as far as both income hits (raid & strike) as well as massing hits.

In order for something to be changed there has to be something wrong with it and I don't see it.

The only argument uro has given to change the system was to reply "is it?" to "the system we have now is fine" and that isn't much of an argument is it now?

So, I'm gonna go ahead and ask, why change the system we have now? What's wrong with it?
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Re: Weapon system rework

Post by Lord Ishurue on Fri Jan 08, 2010 9:31 am

ioz wrote:To me, this is overcomplicating the game.

The system we have now seems roughly balanced to me as far as both income hits (raid & strike) as well as massing hits.

In order for something to be changed there has to be something wrong with it and I don't see it.

The only argument uro has given to change the system was to reply "is it?" to "the system we have now is fine" and that isn't much of an argument is it now?

So, I'm gonna go ahead and ask, why change the system we have now? What's wrong with it?

I agree the current weapon system is fine . Maybe reduce Damage points taken on strike missions , by 10% .
.
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Re: Weapon system rework

Post by Admin on Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:56 am

ioz wrote:So, I'm gonna go ahead and ask, why change the system we have now? What's wrong with it?
How many defenses have you massed on the test server with the new system

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Re: Weapon system rework

Post by Jiro on Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:00 pm

none yet, I am waiting for weapons to build. Kind of pointless to send in unarmed attack units.
I was trying to farm through all my ST, when I found out that farming no longer costs ST and raiding is 1 ST only. I look forward to testing raiding.

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Re: Weapon system rework

Post by Admin on Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:21 pm

anyways, ioz currently the "damage points" system is really annoying for me because when changes are made it makes it hard to balance.

Plus if you compare AT/ST cost and unit losses of test server system to current system, then I'm sure you'll understand how it's better

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Re: Weapon system rework

Post by Kenzu on Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:28 pm

All attacks should cost at least 1 ST
I don't want people to get to rank 1 just because they have nothing better to do than farm 24/7 while others have real life duties.
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Re: Weapon system rework

Post by Alex on Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:16 pm

Kenzu wrote:All attacks should cost at least 1 ST
I don't want people to get to rank 1 just because they have nothing better to do than farm 24/7 while others have real life duties.
1. Why not?

2. They still cost ATs....

-Alex
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Re: Weapon system rework

Post by Universe on Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:06 pm

1. Because when sucking at life means winning the game, the game is wrong.
2. *sigh*


@Kenzu: It's a shame, but this is what you get for recruiting in a certain pool of games; people who think they know what's best for the game, but only care for their account. Commonplace occurrence.
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Re: Weapon system rework

Post by Nigatsu_Aka on Fri Jan 08, 2010 8:03 pm

When is this system going live?

Will there be any protection given prior/while releasing it?
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Re: Weapon system rework

Post by Admin on Fri Jan 08, 2010 9:51 pm

When there's been enough testing and I feel that it has been fine tuned

Roughly I'd say first week of february

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Re: Weapon system rework

Post by Alex on Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:39 am

Universe wrote:1. Because when sucking at life means winning the game, the game is wrong.

Just because people choose to spend alot of time playing a game doesn't mean they are sucking at life, they are quite possible having alot more fun then a person who is not.
I beleive a person is 'winning' at life if they are enjoying what they are doing, if that means playing a game alot then they 'win'.

-Alex
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Re: Weapon system rework

Post by Admin on Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:57 am

Ok, so here it goes, I got other things to do so I'll keep it short:

Skill vs Time invested

Those are the two main specs a game can be built upon, however it has been proven time and again, purely skill based games can never be as popular as the others. So the hard part is to make a game to be somewhere in the middle.

The reason why many people who left AW or didn't come at all was because "there was nothing to do".
So basically, people love clickers lol.

I'm open to suggestions

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Re: Weapon system rework

Post by Nigatsu_Aka on Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:54 pm

One of the reasons why i came back is because AW isn't mainly a clicker...
In late Aug I left both SGW and AW... now i'm back here but don't plan on returning anytime soon on SGW. So whatever you do for the game, you're do it good... (except the no repairs part for farming no defense accounts... will wait and see how the new system will work, though).
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Re: Weapon system rework

Post by Starryager on Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:07 pm

Admin wrote:Weapons system:
- No more repairs
- If a unit dies then the weapon they were holding is lost
- For practical reasons, best weapons get destroyed first instead of a proportional part of all weapons

- Weapon upkeep cost
- Will be directly deducted from your turn income
- Higher level weapons will cost more upkeep % wise (random numbers, i.e. Knife would cost you 1% of value per day, Sniper Rifle might cost 1.4% though)

Awaiting suggestions (and feedback after release on test server) concerning unit losses.
Right now, losses are as follows:
Attack/Raid/Hunt Assassins/Invasion
Defender 0.25%
Attacker 2%

Assault/Destruction
Defender 3%
Attacker 7.5%

First group should remain approximately the same, and will most likely maybe only increase defender to 0.5-0.75%.

Second group I will probably make it around 3% for defender and 3-3.5% for attacker.
Since an attacker wouldn't gain anything by being able to repair anymore, there is no more reason to keep it skewed in the defenders favor.

I DISAGREED!!!

If your attackers enter the war, their weapons get destroyed, it can be repaired. But lost? I highly disagree with it! It just makes ecomeny bad, and more harder for smaller players to climb up in the rank with their meager ecomeny.

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Re: Weapon system rework

Post by Kenzu on Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:33 am

Alex wrote:
Kenzu wrote:All attacks should cost at least 1 ST
I don't want people to get to rank 1 just because they have nothing better to do than farm 24/7 while others have real life duties.
1. Why not?

2. They still cost ATs....

-Alex

Because if some people have no life, they can play other games, where they farm 24/7 instead of ruining Aderan Wars.

Admin wrote:Ok, so here it goes, I got other things to do so I'll keep it short:

Skill vs Time invested

Those are the two main specs a game can be built upon, however it has been proven time and again, purely skill based games can never be as popular as the others. So the hard part is to make a game to be somewhere in the middle.

The reason why many people who left AW or didn't come at all was because "there was nothing to do".
So basically, people love clickers lol.

I'm open to suggestions

Great
Now that those people left, we don't need to bother about them anymore.

And you should take it with certainty that if you make a game where people can keep up with other players only if they spend hours on farming, you will make them addicted and after a month or two they will quit the game, because it will cost them too much time to play and they might neglect their real life duties, since if they they play less, they would not keep up with other players. In other words we would loose players.

Therefore don't make any major changes to the farming system.

Do you want a game, where people can farm unlimited times each day?
Then I recommend placing such feature in a different game.

One of the unique benefits of playing Aderan Wars is that it takes much less time to play than other games, and still you can be a good player keeping up with others. God bless Supply Turns!
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Re: Weapon system rework

Post by Nigatsu_Aka on Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:00 am

One of the unique benefits of playing Aderan Wars is that it takes much less time to play than other games, and still you can be a good player keeping up with others. God bless Supply Turns!

If there would be repairs or costs for attacking 0 defense farms, would be an even better balanced game.
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Re: Weapon system rework

Post by Nigatsu_Aka on Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:18 am

One more question: what will happen with the invasion attack kill ratio? How many "left attackers" will "finish the job" (1 attacker will kill how many units)?

(since obviously the defense will never be zeroed, the income units are a lot more protected than ever before)
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Re: Weapon system rework

Post by Admin on Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:41 am

Both invasion and hunt assassins will still require the same amount of "extra" attack power to kill the same amount of units as before

So 1 thing that makes it harder and 2 things that make it easier:
Harder because you need even more attackers now to also occupy the leftover defense (if there is one)

Easier because:
1)
test server updates released wrote:
3) Unit losses are as follows:
Hunt Assassins/Invasion
Defender 1.1% (0.25%)
Attacker 1.5% (2%)
In brackets you see the % of units lost before the update

2) Due to the removal of repair costs, a significant portion of the cost involved in killing these units has been removed which strongly favors the attacker.

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Re: Weapon system rework

Post by Lord Ishurue on Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:05 pm

Man how is this a Fair system

Ishurue's soldiers march onto the battlefield.

Ishurue's army was composed of:
983 Super Soldiers, 8,579 Regular Soldiers and 0 Mercenaries

100 Super Soldiers were armed with Mobile Artillery
883 Super Soldiers came unarmed
8579 Regular Soldiers came unarmed

Kaboobi awaited the invaders with the following:
124 Super Soldiers, 0 Regular Soldiers and 0 Mercenaries

124 Super Soldiers were armed with APC

Your field scouts report on the status of the enemy: The invaders deal 2,757,755 damage on the enemy!
This results in 9 casualties amongst the defending troops!

The defending forces return fire and inflict 1,220,185 damage on their opponents!
They manage to cause 398 casualties in their enemies ranks!

The assaulting armies engaged with a frontal assault
The defenders held their ground with a standard defense
Ishurue's forces Defeated the enemy!

As Kaboobi's army runs from the battlefield the victors finish their assigned mission and return home:
It is reported that
Ishurue returns back to his homeworld, glorious and praised by many.
Kaboobi's troops gather their dead and return to their homes, awaiting their visitors to come again to match their strength once more
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Re: Weapon system rework

Post by Admin on Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:15 pm

And which part of the formula did not work as it should?

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Re: Weapon system rework

Post by Nigatsu_Aka on Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:34 pm

I think that you should write somewhere in HUGE CAPS that there are no more repairs on weapons.
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Re: Weapon system rework

Post by Admin on Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:57 pm

Considering our issue seems to be repeated non-reading of posts, I think even big caps wouldn't solve the issue.
Even though I am all up for persuading people that the updates are balanced and fair and going to great lengths in tackling and correcting their misconceptions....

It's like with math in school. Some people, no matter how much time they spend learning, still dont pass the test.

Edit:
So ishurue to clear up your confusion.
Sending a lot of soldiers, most of them unarmed, into combat will get a big number of them killed.
If you had all of your soldiers armed then you would have had 10% of the casualties that you did

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Re: Weapon system rework

Post by Jiro on Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:38 pm

Hi Admin,

I don't think this is not reading posts, just not agreeing that this is a good change. In the example provided, both weapon power and total power were much greater than that of the defenders, yet the losses were 40-fold (with a 10-fold army size.)
I fail to see how this is realistic or even fair, so maybe we should not implement it the way it is now. I think that is Ishurues point. Which has been made before.

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