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Untraining costs.
by Nomad on Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:10 am
Never paid much attention to this until today when it caught my eye. I didnt know where to post this so feel free to move it if need be.
My question is 2 part
1. Is this intended?
2. What is the reasoning/logic behind the set up if you don't mind sharing Admin.
problem i have is, why is it more expensive to untrain then train? but that I can accept as one of the controls on the game to stop massive retraining cheaply. My concern it that the covert and assassin based players are getting what appears to be a fairly signifigant edge when it comes to cost. I say that because any soilder will be armed. Any weapon over "Grenade Launcher 250 25,000 Kuwal" puts the cost of training and arming very close to the cost of training a Covert/assasin unit. If you give them the best weapons of "IFV 800 184,000 Kuwal" then you see the cost for the military unit is signifigantly higher. Thats just my line of thinking anyway.
Wondering your thoughts on the matter.
Military Units
Unit type////////Cost to train Per Unit///////Cost to untrain per unit
Attack Units,,,,,,,,15,000 Kuwal,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,15,606 Kuwal 606 more to untrain then train
Defence Units,,,,,,15,000 Kuwal,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,15,606 Kuwal 606 more to untrain then train
Spies,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,45,000 Kuwal,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,18,106 Kuwal 26,849 less to untrain then train
Assassins,,,,,,,,,,,,45,000 Kuwal,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,18,106 Kuwal 26,849 less to untrain then train
Civilian Units
Unit type////////Cost Per Unit///////Cost to untrain per unit
Farmers,,,,,,,,,,,5,000 Kuwal,,,,,,,,,,7,803 Kuwal 2,803 more to untrain then train
Workers,,,,,,,,,,,7,500 Kuwal,,,,,,,,,,8,303 Kuwal 803 more to untrain then train
Miners,,,,,,,,,,,,,10,000 Kuwal,,,,,,,,,8,803 Kuwal 1,197 less to untrain then train
My question is 2 part
1. Is this intended?
2. What is the reasoning/logic behind the set up if you don't mind sharing Admin.
problem i have is, why is it more expensive to untrain then train? but that I can accept as one of the controls on the game to stop massive retraining cheaply. My concern it that the covert and assassin based players are getting what appears to be a fairly signifigant edge when it comes to cost. I say that because any soilder will be armed. Any weapon over "Grenade Launcher 250 25,000 Kuwal" puts the cost of training and arming very close to the cost of training a Covert/assasin unit. If you give them the best weapons of "IFV 800 184,000 Kuwal" then you see the cost for the military unit is signifigantly higher. Thats just my line of thinking anyway.
Wondering your thoughts on the matter.
Nomad- Aderan Super Soldier
- Number of posts: 844
Registration date: 2008-12-17 
Re: Untraining costs.
by Kenzu on Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:01 am
High untraining costs prevent players from untraining their units if they expect an attack on them (especially after they massed someone).
I think untraining costs can be higher.
Double training price for civilian units
45k for spies and assassins
30k for attackers and defenders
Unit type -Cost to untrain per unit
Attack Units 30.000
Defence Units 30.000
Spies 45.000
Assassins 45.000
Civilian Units
Unit type-Cost to untrain per unit
Farmers 10.000
Workers 15.000
Miners 20.000
I think untraining costs can be higher.
Double training price for civilian units
45k for spies and assassins
30k for attackers and defenders
Unit type -Cost to untrain per unit
Attack Units 30.000
Defence Units 30.000
Spies 45.000
Assassins 45.000
Civilian Units
Unit type-Cost to untrain per unit
Farmers 10.000
Workers 15.000
Miners 20.000
Kenzu- Aderan Super Soldier
- Number of posts: 823
Age: 22
Location: EU
Registration date: 2008-12-03 -
Re: Untraining costs.
by Admin on Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:20 am
once i see most people focusing on covert and assassin i might reconsider costs.
for now most people focus on attack and defense
for now most people focus on attack and defense
Admin- Admin
- Number of posts: 1522
Registration date: 2008-08-18 -
Re: Untraining costs.
by Nomad on Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:47 am
Well if you think its an issue I think it should be corrected when you see it, not when people start using it to their advantage, but I respect you decision on it.
Would still like YOUR reasoning/logic behind untraining cost being so skewed tho.
Would still like YOUR reasoning/logic behind untraining cost being so skewed tho.
Nomad- Aderan Super Soldier
- Number of posts: 844
Registration date: 2008-12-17 -
Re: Untraining costs.
by Admin on Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:19 am
untraining cost isn't skewed.
Imho would be a very interesting gameplay if untraining didn't exist at all, but let's not think about that.
also i'd like to remind you that a while ago when weapons only cost 5-10k and less, it cost under 30k to train an attack or defense unit.
A spy cost 45k, between 50 and 150% more than attack or defense.
and untraining cost is what kenzu said, dont want people to train attackers, mass someone and then untrain them without any cost to make sure they cannot be retaliated upon.
Imho would be a very interesting gameplay if untraining didn't exist at all, but let's not think about that.
also i'd like to remind you that a while ago when weapons only cost 5-10k and less, it cost under 30k to train an attack or defense unit.
A spy cost 45k, between 50 and 150% more than attack or defense.
and untraining cost is what kenzu said, dont want people to train attackers, mass someone and then untrain them without any cost to make sure they cannot be retaliated upon.
Admin- Admin
- Number of posts: 1522
Registration date: 2008-08-18 -
Re: Untraining costs.
by Ragnarok on Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:43 pm
Admin wrote:Imho would be a very interesting gameplay if untraining didn't exist at all, but let's not think about that.
i really like to sound of that......would make the game alittle more unique...
Ragnarok- Aderan Worker
- Number of posts: 114
Registration date: 2009-04-04 -
Re: Untraining costs.
by Admin on Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:50 pm
maybe but 2 things are certain
1) a shedload of people would lynch me
2) game would possibly suffer (but also maybe thrive) since no untraining would mean less selling uu's for $. Although I think it would be great it would also mean declined interest in the game from some people, which would eventually be reflected in the playerbase
1) a shedload of people would lynch me
2) game would possibly suffer (but also maybe thrive) since no untraining would mean less selling uu's for $. Although I think it would be great it would also mean declined interest in the game from some people, which would eventually be reflected in the playerbase
Admin- Admin
- Number of posts: 1522
Registration date: 2008-08-18 -
Re: Untraining costs.
by Nomad on Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:37 pm
FTR I wouldnt have any issues with no untraining. I have asked for, and promoted the exact thing in others games but it was never really accepted.
i proposed a system for covert/anti just like strike a def. menial peon can be retrained, but the powerful units could not be untrained.
I don't see how you can say they are not skewed, I mean look at ALL of them, not just covert, strike and def, what about the cost to retrain income units?
But as I said, I can respect your stance on it, was just wanting to try to understand your reasoning.
i proposed a system for covert/anti just like strike a def. menial peon can be retrained, but the powerful units could not be untrained.
I don't see how you can say they are not skewed, I mean look at ALL of them, not just covert, strike and def, what about the cost to retrain income units?
But as I said, I can respect your stance on it, was just wanting to try to understand your reasoning.
Nomad- Aderan Super Soldier
- Number of posts: 844
Registration date: 2008-12-17 -
Re: Untraining costs.
by Nigatsu_Aka on Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:16 am
I also notice that the untraining costs in testserver are smaller. Did you made the untraining costs variable? Cos if you did, then that sucks hard.
Untrain Units
Unit type Cost Per Unit Amount
Attack Units 10,352 Kuwal
Defense Units 10,352 Kuwal
Spies 12,852 Kuwal
Assassins 12,852 Kuwal
Farmers 5,176 Kuwal
Workers 5,676 Kuwal
Miners 6,176 Kuwal
Nigatsu_Aka- Aderan Miner
- Number of posts: 218
ID: 174
Registration date: 2009-01-19 -
Re: Untraining costs.
by Admin on Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:41 am
yeh it's variable cos if you remember/noticed at all initially it was 3% of untrained units to be lost.
so it now takes cost of uu and then adds that on top of the base untrain cost. So instead of using 3% worth in units, you now lose 3% worth in kuwal
so it now takes cost of uu and then adds that on top of the base untrain cost. So instead of using 3% worth in units, you now lose 3% worth in kuwal
Admin- Admin
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Registration date: 2008-08-18 -
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