Re: World Republic attack on a Commonwealth member.

reaper · by reaper on Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:19 am

ian wrote:
Kenzu wrote:Yes, demands have been fulfilled.

It would be good if I could hear Ian Reaper and Dark Arrow officially accepting the demands so that we can close the topic.

Thank you!

On behalf of The Imperium and The Others, i have been authorised to speak.

Before we give verdict, does World Republic have anything to add to this thread, which may have been missed out, overlooked or simply forgotten? If so, please make them known now.

Thank you.

Kismet · by Kismet on Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:57 am

Ok, so you're saying that you're 2x WR's size, but yet you want to reduce our size even more? Crafty... wily.. scared?

No, What I was saying if you'd bothered to actually read it (and I put it above the quote so you'd see it and not get bored scrolling down like I did with yours).... kenzu was using propaganda when asking for double/triple/quadruple spies. For you to get so upset over that to me is just hilarious. Instead of working on just those players who keep "massing" yours, you blow it out of proportion (guys say women do that a lot - most men I've met go to more extremes than any woman would). You want us to cut our ranks, you say the inactives, but ended up cutting some actives too (congrats!). 2 days isn't inactive - 2 days is a comfort zone for some of us. We have the defense, why log in every 12 hours to make sure YOU know we're not inactive? Also, real life is an issue... unless you don't have one, then you're just jealous of those who do therefore demanding we cut everyone who is 48 hours inactive. Lame.

There are a lot of reasons I wouldn't follow you. Is it loyalty to Kenzu on my part? No, not necessarily. We have a lot of new players who need help and *gasp* actually ask for help in learning the game. Apparently you and I have not played the same browser war games (thank God for that). I really wouldn't follow you. Arrogance is one word that comes to mind. Also, this isn't Dune and AW hasn't been around 3 years. Sometimes it's just easier to go with the devil you know vs the devil you don't. You stated it yourself, you're 2x the size of WR. Perhaps The Others and The Company are afraid you're going to turn on them next. It's political and it's a "let's go with the largest guys because if we don't, they'll turn on us next" policy. Asking them won't always get you the truth of it...... and their posting here that they're behind you is only to strengthen with you that they're not against you.

I didn't blindly make this post. I have lurked these forums for awhile. I have even posted at times. Rarely to be sure, but I don't ignore what has been said.

Kenzu's very open and very antagonistic I suppose on the forums. Yet you want to punish everyone in WR that hasn't done anything to those players. I've read the threads you've posted. Again, it boils down to this... I don't care. I care about the people in my alliance, I care about the friends I have in other alliances. I want them all to grow and be strong and not bullied. I can very safely say I have not bullied anyone on here nor would I threaten to wipe out anyone's alliance if they don't cut their ranks and pay me billions of kuwal. This is still WAY too early in the game for this sort of thing to be happening. You change the battlefield before people have a chance to really get into it. Congrats.

ian wrote:
well, that entire post pretty much highlighted just how stupid you are - congratulations! Your telling me i haven't got a clue about diplomacy, or propaganda, or how to play these sort of games?

Last i checked, The Commonwealth is almost twice World Republic's army size, with 1/3 their members, its members have choose to keep me as leader on Aderan Wars and on Dune wars for the last 3 years - both of which we ve always been one of the main superpowers - and we ve survived everything our enemy's have ever thrown at us. Clearly The Commonwealth isn't as blindly led as you would have people believe.

Secondly - if i ve never heard of diplomacy, or propaganda, why is it then, that The Company and The Others, are choosing to side with The Commonwealth, and aren't joining world republic in issuing a ultimatum to The Commonwealth? Surely if we had no case against World Republic - or no means to create what appears to be a case - then they would stay out, as they would if we had no diplomatic skills eithier....

Make no mistake - you haven't got the first idea of what your talking about. Your entire post assumes myself and others have just "blindly" created this thread and groped our way into this situation - as oppossed to this situation being the result of weeks/ months of posturing and manoveuring by all involved - whether by The Commonwealth, The Company - or World Republic. When i created this thread i full intended only 1 of 2 outcomes - 1.) World Republic change its ways and ceases being a threat to other players or 2.) They force our hand, and a strategic rival of The Commonwealth and our allies is (justifiably) annihilated in a prolonged war.

Eithier way, your post is of someone blindly making assumptions and guessing Commonwealth foreign policy, or our objectives. If you knew our history (which some from dune know), you d think twice about this entire thread, and realise everything is intended. I ll give you a hint though - wars without justification lead to a lose of support for them from the domestic front, making such wars dangerous. Wars where your actions are clearly justified - such as the enemy being given a good chance to amend their ways, and resolve things via diplomacy - and yet failing to - are a lot safer.

Kenzu and most people here well knows that should World Republic have failed to meet many of The Commonwealth's (fair and justified) demands, it would have shown World Republic in a very bad light and have given a solid reason for war. Fortunately for your members, Kenzu appears to have a foresight and understanding of this you and some of your members lack. By agreeing to most of our demands, Kenzu has ensured World Republic's public appearance improves, and that should those involved in this situation now launch an attack - we will be the aggressors unless we have good cause - ensuring World Republic does not have to worry about loosing suport on its domestic front, while The Commonwealth and The Company do.

Bottomline: Had World Republic outright refused/ failed to meet many of the demands of the allied forces, we d have had a very good, fair and justified reason to attack. By WR agreeing to out demands - we ve just achieved one of the 2 optional outcomes we aimed for (World Republic changing its ways) - while World Republic has recieved a powerful diplomatic tool - that of agreeing to all/ most of our demands, meaning should we now attack, it will put us in a very very poor light - such an attack therefore becomes increasingly less likely, and World Republic can therefore be more assurred we aren't about to go to war - a defacto guarantee of peace - where before they had no such assurances.

Both sides (The allies and world republic) have thus gained something of considerable value - mainly due to the way this situation has been established (influenced heavily by myself) - yet i have no diplomatic skills at all you say? A blind diplomat (such as a war mongeror) would have ensured only one party benefits, at the expense of another - where exactly is the "victim" in this situation?

Don't mistake or underestimate us for fools, idiots - or paronoid dillusional nutjobs - World Republic has enough of that sort of thinking already. You clearly don't understand, or know, anything.

souldog · by souldog on Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:16 pm

You want us to cut our ranks, you say the inactives, but ended up cutting some actives too (congrats!).

actually your wrong ! kenzu only deleted those who haven't been on in the month of september all rest is still in Kismet maybe just check your memberslist before you say anything ....

Perhaps The Others and The Company are afraid you're going to turn on them next.

We have been unofficial allies with the commonwealth from the day they exsist .... maybe get some info first before complaining

Haggis · by Haggis on Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:52 pm

Kismet wrote:You want us to cut our ranks, you say the inactives, but ended up cutting some actives too (congrats!). 2 days isn't inactive - 2 days is a comfort zone for some of us. We have the defense, why log in every 12 hours to make sure YOU know we're not inactive? Also, real life is an issue... unless you don't have one, then you're just jealous of those who do therefore demanding we cut everyone who is 48 hours inactive. Lame.

Kismet · by Kismet on Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:54 pm

souldog wrote:
You want us to cut our ranks, you say the inactives, but ended up cutting some actives too (congrats!).

actually your wrong ! kenzu only deleted those who haven't been on in the month of september all rest is still in Kismet maybe just check your memberslist before you say anything ....

Perhaps The Others and The Company are afraid you're going to turn on them next.

We have been unofficial allies with the commonwealth from the day they exsist .... maybe get some info first before complaining

I have checked as I have the ability to do so. Also, why aren't the rest of the alliances going by a Code of Conduct? If you are, why haven't you guys posted? Since one has been forced to do so, why not all?

Also souldog, how would you know specifically who is active, who is inactive and who has been cut? Seriously.... you have a way to check WR's stats when WR regular members don't? (checking last login, remember that.......)

souldog · by souldog on Wed Sep 23, 2009 1:07 pm

regular WR members can check last login ....

my defenition of inactive

Aelth 278 4,736 [01 Sep] 16:35
jkjester 376 24,664 [06 Sep] 21:38
drache88 258 32,152 [01 Sep] 07:01
tomy555 222 53,645 [07 Sep] 11:54

they haven't logged in in the last 2 weeks and their all your members!

We have a code inactive will be removed and they are removed alot faster then yours.

every member of the company has logged in in the last 24 hours !

Haggis · by Haggis on Wed Sep 23, 2009 1:14 pm

sorry bout the previous post, accidently pressed enter

kismet wrote:I have checked as I have the ability to do so. Also, why aren't the rest of the alliances going by a Code of Conduct? If you are, why haven't you guys posted? Since one has been forced to do so, why not all?

http://aderanwars.forumotion.com/alliance-recruitment-f19/the-commonwealth-t451-30.htm - scroll down like 5 posts

Kismet wrote:You want us to cut our ranks, you say the inactives, but ended up cutting some actives too (congrats!). 2 days isn't inactive - 2 days is a comfort zone for some of us. We have the defense, why log in every 12 hours to make sure YOU know we're not inactive? Also, real life is an issue... unless you don't have one, then you're just jealous of those who do therefore demanding we cut everyone who is 48 hours inactive. Lame.

Shut the hell up! We all have lifes, many work, some have kids, some are at university, some just have busy social lives, either way, we all manage to log on more often than every two days. In a couple more months, this game will have grown, and their will be super strikers out their, there will be wars, and when that time comes, all those people who take 2 days to login, will be screwed. What will you do? quit because you're getting farmed?

Kismet wrote:This is still WAY too early in the game for this sort of thing to be happening. You change the battlefield before people have a chance to really get into it. Congrats.

This gets said far too often, but here goes, "ITS A WAR GAME!" Do you want us to give you a start of game ceasefire, how about no attacking anyone for an entire year whilst everyone gets settled? sound good? We're here to play a game, not to sit behind a defense and bank some kuwal every two days?

kismet wrote:It's political and it's a "let's go with the largest guys because if we don't, they'll turn on us next" policy.

OR...because have been friendly towards each for a long time(even before The Commonwealth, were of a decent size) and also we have a lot of friends from previous games in there aswell.

ian · by ian on Wed Sep 23, 2009 1:25 pm

Kismet wrote:
souldog wrote:
You want us to cut our ranks, you say the inactives, but ended up cutting some actives too (congrats!).

actually your wrong ! kenzu only deleted those who haven't been on in the month of september all rest is still in Kismet maybe just check your memberslist before you say anything ....

Perhaps The Others and The Company are afraid you're going to turn on them next.

We have been unofficial allies with the commonwealth from the day they exsist .... maybe get some info first before complaining

I have checked as I have the ability to do so. Also, why aren't the rest of the alliances going by a Code of Conduct? If you are, why haven't you guys posted? Since one has been forced to do so, why not all?

Also souldog, how would you know specifically who is active, who is inactive and who has been cut? Seriously.... you have a way to check WR's stats when WR regular members don't? (checking last login, remember that.......)

Firstly - give me a name of a single player The Commonwealth has committed an hostile act against on Aderan Wars. You can't - there is literally none - this is compared to WR who have massed several smaller players.

Secondly - the billions of kuwal fine we asked for - we dropped. So again, your post is wrong.

Thirdly - why aren't the alliances going by the code of conduct? I think you really did just show how foolish/ behind the times you are. Let me grab 2 quotes for you:

ian wrote:Figured i should get around to posting this - it contains the rights of those in TC, and those who have dealings with TC. Any problems - contact eithier myself (kilo) or admiral ackbar.

Thanks

The Commonwealth Code of Conduct and Principles

- All commonwealth players are expected to not threaten, terrorize or repeatedly farm active* players. Any player found to be doing so within the commonwealth will face punishment, and possibly dismissal. Any player doing so to a commonwealth player will be contacted, and if a reasonable excuse is not given, will be destroyed.

- If a commonwealth player is asked politely to refrain from attacking someone who is active*, they are expected to do so within reason. If anyone should have an issue with an active* commonwealth player, it is recommended you contact the leader of the alliance which that person is in. If a commonwealth player asks you politely to refrain from attacking them, you are expected to do so within reason.

- All incidents of rudeness from a commonwealth player should be reported to a supreme high command member. Any member being rude to a commonwealth member will generally be contacted, however depending on the contents of the message/ rudeness, the player may be retaliated against.

- Any issue/ personal vendetta should be reported to the Supreme High Command immediately. If a player chooses to take action into their own hands without first consulting the SHC, then if that person is a commonwealth member, they will suffer the consequences unsupported. If the aggressor is outside of the commonwealth, and have failed to contact the SHC, then the commonwealth may get involved.

Farming Policy

The commonwealth accepts and acknowledges that farming and raiding is part of AW.

As such in regard to kuwal farming, the commonwealth defines reasonable farming, (both against commonwealth players, and by commonwealth players) to be roughly 3 attacks per active* target/ player per week. Anymore than this and the commonwealth regards it as repeated farming.

In the event you are being repeatedly farmed by a commonwealth member, you are advised to contact the alliance leader immediately, and depending on the scale of the farming you will be issued compensation, and the member will be restricted on their attacks on you - this is subject to the above code of conduct.

In the event you repeatedly farm active* commonwealth members, a warning will be issued, afterwhich failure to comply will result in appropriate action being taken.

Raiding

In regard to raiding, The Commonwealth operates by a "profitability" principle - that is to say, there is no limit to the amount of times a player can potentially be raided, so long as generally the raiding is reasonably profitable and the target raided has more than 48 turns worth of U.P out.

*Active: For the purposes of a definition of active, while each event/ circumstance will be taken subjectively, generally a number of methods can be applied to give a guideline as to a players activity. Several guidelines/ methods are illustrated below:

1.) If a players defence weapons are below 80% in power they are deemed inactive
2.) If a player has a disproportionate amount of kuwal/ UU out compared to their turn income/ U.P i.e. generally more than 48 turns worth of U.P, and 36 turns of income and that player is deemed no longer active, in which case the above policy does not apply to them.

Our Principles regarding farming policies

Furthermore, as part of both our farming policy, and as a matter of principle/ belief, the commonwealth rejects all "no farming" policies or close to "no farming" policies implemented by other alliances/ individuals/ empires. In the event a commonwealth player is attacked in response to their breaching a "no farming" policy, then provided they did not repeatedly farm anyone, and subject to any violation of the code of conduct, then the full force of the commonwealth will be as of right brought against the individual/ alliance responsible for the attack.

In addittion to this, the commonwealth believes relations with other alliances / individuals are based on principles shared between the 2 parties. As such given the core belief of the commonwealth that "no farming" policies are unfair, and injust, any alliance/ individual who chooses to pursue a "no farming" policy will be deemed to no longer share similar principles, and will as such have automatically dissolved any previous relations/ agreements with the commonwealth.

Furthermore, any freinds/ allies, of the commonwealth who are subjected to an injustice as a result of a "no farming" policy are strongly encouraged to contact the commonwealth immediately, where financial support may be given, and possibly full military support subject to an official diplomatic agreement, or a majority democratic vote by The Commonwealth public.

The commonwealth's key belief is justice and fairness, and we believe "no farming" policies to be a complete contradiction of this - as such our doors are always open to players who share the same principles as us, and we will do our best to help players who suffer at the hands of such policies/ injustice.

Alliance Rules (in addittion to the Code of Conduct):

1. If you are attacked, post on the forum. This way we know whats going on and can help you.

2. Don't be abusive to anyone on either the Aderan Wars forum or the Commonwealth forum. If you are insulted, don't reply.

3. Respect the authority of the Commonwealth leadership. Only they can make decisions on behalf of the alliance, and only after discussion between them and consultation with the rest of you.

4. Do not implicate the Commonwealth if you are threatened. You do not have the authority to say "If you attack me my entire alliance will mass your account". If you do, you will be severely reprimanded

5. Do not threaten, terrorize or repeatedly farm "active" players without the permission of the Commonwealth SHC.

6. Only members of the Commonwealth Leadership (Grand Chancellor, Vice Chancellor and S.H.C) can make official statements on behalf of the alliance - this applies both on the Aderan Wars forum and in any other matter.

7. All Commonwealth members are required to follow the orders of the S.H.C, H.C and chosen Commonwealth representatives.

8. Adhere to alliance non-aggression pacts and treaties. Do not attack any members of alliances with which we have a peace treaty. You are ill-advised to attack their officers, even if they are not specifically included in the NAP.

9. If you are asked politely to refrain from attacking someone, do so immediately and report it on the Commonwealth forum - only resume your attacks if given permission to do so by the Commonwealth S.H.C.

10. Activity on the TC forum on a weekly basis is essential - failure to comply will result in a caution/ dismissal, also failure to respond to important announcements when asked for details will also result in a caution/ dismissal.

11. Attacks on fellow Commonwealth members is strictly prohibited and will be severely reprimanded, and if repeated, will result in instant dismissal.

ian wrote:In the beginning there was darkness, then out of darkness emerged light, and out of light emerged planets - and on the planets came life, and with life came the Aderan Federation.

Peace prospered through the Aderan federation for many millenia - untill driven by the need to upgrade their military capacities, the Aderan Federation began a series of real war-games to develop new technologies and military doctrines. These war games became known as the Aderan Wars.

Into this war came The Company - a brotherhood united in its comradeship and spirit. From a distant universe emerged The Commonwealth - a fledgling alliance united in its ambition and principles.

As these 2 great alliances expanded across countless planets and voids toward one another, they met, traded, interacted and eventually began to cooperate with one another on common matters.

From these seeds of cooperation a new power has emerged. Driven by similar principles of strength, might, fairness and justice, The Commonwealth and The Company have set aside differences and united as one - and so, on the 21st of september 2009, the Imperium empire has been formed.

The Imperium will triumph over all others who challenge us - we shall last, and we shall prevail.

Long Live The Imperium!

Ian - Commonwealth Grand Chancellor.

That means the company and the commonwealth are the same. While The Company hasn't officially adopted The Commonwealth's code of conduct - you can bet pretty much that since they embody and hold similar principles as us on what is and is not accepted, that they are unofficially operating by a code of conduct similar to it.

Finally - "the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must" - WR is in no position to require we adopt a Code of conduct like we ve required of them... but even then, The Commonwealth has voluntary adopted one (the same one we ve had for 3+ years) so that kinda makes your point pointless anyway.

One last point: Propaganda. Kenzu's messages asking for spies may well have been for propaganda purposes - but they were provocative and intented to split the alliances/ cause paronoia etc.. - as well as maybe actually recruit a spy. All of these are hostile intent - and thus potentially a act of war.

As for you never following me - you wouldn't be allowed to. Commonwealth members are expected to use their intelligeance and brain, to act with honour and justice - and, unlike yourself, they would be booted if they were on the forum winging and snivelling that another alliance has just forced their alliance to adapt a code of conduct which prohibits them massing players just for fun/ the hell of it, and requires them to treat others outside their alliance as they would want to be treated.

The likes of you, will never have a place in The Commonwealth or The Imperium. To many players have fallen at the hands of World Republic without reason or chance for peace - and too long have you and your leadership and other alliance members sat idly by and let this happen - or actually joined in most of the time. Yet now you have the audacity to come onto this forum, and accuse The Commonwealth of being the aggressor and bullying power - because we ve issued you an ultimatum requiring you to stop WR's actions against the smaller players?

It all comes down to one set of principles at the end of the day though - "the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must" - this is what World Republic applied against the smaller players who never stood a chance - and since you should always treat others how you yourselves expect to be treated - this is now what is applied to World Republic by The Imperium and The Others.

Hai-Shulud · by Hai-Shulud on Wed Sep 23, 2009 1:34 pm

LOL you make me laugh harder each time

Im gonna try and clarify all your points as clearly as i can manage taking it from the top of your post

1- I know for a fact that there is a spy in The Commonwealth ranks, its just a matter of time before i find him and hold a public execution. Kenzu giving up his name will just make my job easier. Our forums are heavily active with sensitive information on TC plans and strategies so this information being leaked is of a big concern to us.

2- We wanted you to cut out inactives so when we farm them heavily you dont get all protective. There is no way we will ever accept limitations on PROFITABLE farming or raiding, so cutting loose inactives reduces diplomatic tensions in the long run.

3- If you dont log in every 2 days you ARE inactive! To grow and keep up with the rest of the server you need more activity than that. It doesnt mean your not playing properly it just means your not playing enough and so you can not expect to be protected and safe.

4- The Company and The Commonwealth are now part of the Imperium Empire, and The Others have established close contact which completely negates your point. We are looking to ensure that the server grows in peace and fairness.

5- I consider many of my alliance friends what your point here? This is a game so ill play it the way i like it. Anyone has issues with that can just mass me.

6- This is a war game A WAR GAME!! WAR? you know what that means? Do you need a dictionary? Im not gonna apologise for straining the server peace to achieve our objectives

Anything else your unclear about?

ian · by ian on Wed Sep 23, 2009 1:58 pm

Hai-Shulud wrote:1- I know for a fact that there is a spy in The Commonwealth ranks, its just a matter of time before i find him and hold a public execution. Kenzu giving up his name will just make my job easier. Our forums are heavily active with sensitive information on TC plans and strategies so this information being leaked is of a big concern to us.

lol, yeah. I m disappointed in Kenzu though - we gave him the chance to be honest with us, and instead he's took that opportunity and used it to outright lie to us (by saying there were no spies in The Commonwealth), and to further his and World Republic's deceit to the detriment of The Commonwealth and our allies. Once we catch the spy (who will be punished heavily if he doesn't cooperate - and rewarded greatly if he cooperates), we ll have all the evidence required to show this deceit - and to show the outright lie/ breach of this ultimatum.... and when that day comes, there will be no force of arms, threat or tribute which will stand in the way of The Commonwealth getting justice, and there will be no corner on Aderan Wars in which our enemies may hide or cower.

Our vengeance will be swift, our wrath terrible, the small shall perish and the strong shall wither - no mercy will be shown, and no quarter given..... but untill then, untill we have evidence to support what we already know/ suspect - World Republic appears to have gone along with the ultimatum... thus will have peace.

Kenzu · by Kenzu on Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:31 pm

I have said it before and I say it again, we dont have any spy in the Commonwealth.

If you make a witchhunt, you will end up fighting innocents.

You said you will reward the one who cooperates?
Then any player who wants the reward will cooperate with you and claim to be our spy, even though it isn't true.

ian · by ian on Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:44 pm

Kenzu wrote:I have said it before and I say it again, we dont have any spy in the Commonwealth.

If you make a witchhunt, you will end up fighting innocents.

You said you will reward the one who cooperates?
Then any player who wants the reward will cooperate with you and claim to be our spy, even though it isn't true.

lol, Suffice it to say - if you have no spies, there is nothing to worry about.... so relax, go eat popcorn, watch tv or whatever. If there are no spies in The Commonwealth belonging to World Republic, we won't be able to find them obviously Smile

The only thing i ll say, though Kenzu - is don't mess with us - and that includes The Imperium as well. We didn't get to where we are on this game, or any other, by being susceptable to the sort of tricks and cons you ve so far been using/ trying to pull. You ll be wise to remember our motto: "If in doubt, attack". That means if we are in doubt about what you are doing - such as if you ever mass message imperium empire members again asking them to be spies - in order to sow propaganda/ discontent/ paronoia - then we won't ever bother dealing with the doubt in question - but just go straight for the source of the doubt, and eliminate it.

Your trickery and webs might fool others, but your out of your league when dealing with the imperium. We know a lot more than you think, and we think a lot more than you know. Both of us know the truth, and both of us know the variations between what the truth is, and what has actually been posted on this forum. Be warned - some say fate is pre-determined, others say it is what we make it. Fate now rests on your shoulders, and noone elses.

reaper · by reaper on Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:03 pm

peace till the evidence we are looking for is found so kenzu no spy no evidnce u have nothing to worry about have u or do u

Hai-Shulud · by Hai-Shulud on Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:33 pm

Ohhhh i love a good witch-hunt

Im gonna throw a couple of names out there that some TC might remember - Warmad and Law? Razz

Remember what happened to them?

No one will be accused without a 100% certainty that they are guilty. So in the words of Mika - " Relax...... Take it eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeasy"

EDIT: Primary suspect is a voodoo ninja batman ostrich, you know who you are!

Magnus · by Magnus on Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:28 am

Scheesch would you guys post shorter. I hate long Posts and my Head hurts and it is not even IAN who is the only one Twisted Evil