Re: TIE has spies in WR

rflash · by rflash on Sun Oct 11, 2009 6:29 am

Jiro wrote:
It's absurd to keep talking about justice and injustice .... this is a game and the goal is to WIN.

So in the grand scheme of things if alliance A attacks alliance B the main purpose is to get closer to that goal. If TIE attacks WR and wins, which is 99.9% probable, they will have eliminated the most powerful opponent they have atm. Of course, such an action will cost them alot of resources, will make WR members wanting for revenge and will probably make some people regard them in a different light, but it's their call to see if it's worth it or not.

rflash, gathering a lynching mob and bullying like you see here is as despicable in roleplaying as it is in real life. Behaving in such a way, simply because you can and noone will punish you is evidence of a lack of a moral compass, something that will carry over in RL. And no the purpose of a game is not necessarily to win, not in a roleplaying game. Roleplaying is about interaction and the story you create together.
I have no problem with people attacking eachother, but I do have a problem with the type of pressure being put on Kenzu. With wave upon wave of innuendo or even real incidents, blown out of proportion.
And, yes I think it is disproportianate to destroy each and every member of an alliance because you have an issue with some people in the alliance.
All, please take a look at yourself and think if this really is who and what you want to be.

Lol .... let me be a bit more specific.

1. Carrying over into RL what you do in a GAME is a clear sign either of a low IQ or some psyhic illness (maybe even both). Maybe admin should add something like that in the disclaimer in very small letters Twisted Evil

(so when you show up in your school in your main battle tank and asking for the damn 1 tril kuwal to build level 3 yard he is covered)

2. WIN doesn't mean have rank 1 and wipe out everybody else. For some WIN means having a very strong account, for some is making new friends and having fun, for some is getting out a few $$$ from a free game, etc.

You are quite new in the game so before you go all holier then you from your white horse attitude .... take your time and learn some history.

souldog · by souldog on Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:59 am

ask kenzu to confirm it because ian showed you the logs of the attacks

Vesper · by Vesper on Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:34 am

I do find it a bit unsettled that Kenzu has managed to piss off so many people that he has a lynching mob on him. If Kenzu acts anything like in RL like how he acts in this game i feel bad for every person he interacts with as he has most likely lied directly to their face with most of them not even knowing.

Jiro · by Jiro on Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:46 am

Hi rflash,

Knowing that what you do in a rpg is influnced by your RL traits and that things you learn in rpg's may influence your real life is realistic. No, if you learn to settle disputes by sending 3000 units of soldiers to beat the pulp out of someone, that does not translate literally. But if you learn that every good trait you display will be exploited, that may have an impact. Resorting to namecalling when someone disagrees with you is something you may want to evaluate as well.
I am glad you actually agree with me about that the condition for winning in rpg's differs from other games. Whether you call it that there is no winning or that it means something different for each individual is no big difference.
As I posted before, I do not oppose TIE going to war, they have every right to do whatever they please, it is the pressure they are putting on Kenzu that I object to. There is no need for them to justify their actions.
Also, I find the repeated demands for money (Kuwal) to be troubling. There is a real life market for in-game resources. So the incentive for less than honest people to join a game and extort its denizens is there. I am not saying that that is the case here, but it would trouble me less if reparations would go to the people harmed directly.

@souldog, no he didn't, but he may have shown it to the new leader of the Federation.

ian · by ian on Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:26 pm

Jiro wrote:Before WR is lynched by the mob assembled here, could you please post some evidence regarding the attacks on Reyno?
Do Reyno and Sara have anything to comment?
As for compensation for Korruption, Robert, Tackless Shadow, Cicero and Reyno, why should this be directed to you and not the accounts involved? Though it may be hard sending compensation to people who have left the game. Not that excuses the alleged misconduct, but it may make it difficult to repair. Here also, please provide proof (unless already proven.)

The evidence regarding Robert, Korruption, Tackless shadow and circero is already on this forum - posted by World Republic members when they were boasting about their successfull campaigns against these victims. The compensation will be brokered to myself so that i know whether or not the demands have been met. I m not simply going to take Kenzu's word for it that he's set the brokers given his past actions.

As for Reyno - i challenge kenzu to say otherwise that Sara did not perform the attacks i mentioned. Here however is a print screen of the attacks:

As for the "unfair pressure" placed on Kenzu - we were pretty much about to have a peace treaty resolved when Kenzu made this topic - accusing us of bullying etc... He's reopened this crisis - not us. Just we are going to finish it now.

Finally - you summarrised it yourself in one post - if someone bullies another, they deserve to be stopped. The Commonwealth and The Company are the one's intervening and stopping world republic bullying.

ian · by ian on Sun Oct 11, 2009 1:45 pm

kenzu said (10:50):
is this really necessary?
you want to completely destroy the souvereignty of World Republic

kenzu says (13:09):
ian
why are you doing this?
let World Republic live!
ian says (13:09):
why am i doing what?
kenzu says (13:09):
reyno was an inactive player
he hasnt logged in for countless days
kenzu says (13:10):
he bought the account only recently
sara apollogised to him days ago
and he is fine with it
ian says (13:10):
*sighs*, reyno is not a inactive player - he was a commonwealth member, and on the 6th of october - less than 1 day before your member attacked him
he messaged me asking to rejoin TC
ian says (13:11):
that points to him very much logging on at least once in the previous day to the attack
kenzu says (13:12):
I am talking about the time from 1 october to 7 october
jkust because he logged once, doesnt mean he was inactive beofre
conflict has been solved long ago
you shouldnt get involved
ian says (13:12):
i couldn't give 2 hoots
you were honour bound to ensure your members abide by the code of conduct
the fact sara's strike failed on his defence
points to his not being very active
ian says (13:13):
*His being active*
the fact he messaged me on the 6th of october - less than 12hours before sara assassinated him and attacked him
points to that while he may or may not have been active before - he sure as hell was active at the time of the attcak
ian says (13:14):
bottomline: Your member attacked a innocent small player, who at the time was active - for nothing other than revenge over a failed farming attack
*revenge over a farming attack, conducted by herself - which was repelled by the defenders defence*
kenzu says (13:14):
his defense was falling for days
kenzu says (13:15):
I was farming regularly and it has not been repaired
ian says (13:15):
it doesn't change the fact he was active before
kenzu says (13:15):
i told her he is not active she can take his untrained
no
he wasnt active before
he bought the account recently
ian says (13:15):
reyno was in TC for about a month before this even happened#
he's back in the commonwealth now
ian says (13:16):
your member assassinated a innocent player who had logged into the game less than 12hours before the attack
logging on = active
finally
i know for a fact your lieing to me now
on 4th of octover
his defence hit zero
on 7th of october - at the time of the attcak, his defence was back to 80million+ power
ian says (13:17):
thats a sure as hell sign he had returned to the game and became active
yet according to you - you authorised the attack by sara against him - knowing his defence had magically regrown itself back from 0 to 86million+ power
how is that fair?
ian says (13:20):
you made it clear in the discussion on the ultamatum a player should never assassinate or mass a inactive to simply get to their UU or kuwal - that they should wait for the defence to fall naturally to farming/ raiding
ian says (13:21):
yet when a player rebuilds his defence back to 88million from zero - a sure sign he is infact active - you even then authorise the assassination of a innocent player
under your own rules - even if he had been inactive you should not have done so - yet you were fine with doing so
and according to your own rules - had someone done that to a World republic player, it would have been deemed hostile and aggressive
ian says (13:22):
so... one set of rules for world republic players, one set of rules for other players not in world republic
you have no regard for players outside world republic - and certainly no regard for players you percieve as "defenceless". This assassination attempt shows that
ian says (13:23):
what could little old reyno do against World Republic you probably asked yourself.... whats the risks of retaliation for us assassinating him?.... unfortunately, reyno is a commonwealth member - and unfortunately, in doing so you ve breached the ultimatum regarding the code of conduct
ian says (13:24):
not to mention showed your willingness to apply different rules to your own members, and members outside your alliance - in the process targetting a small player
kenzu says (13:24):
i am currently writing a reply to your post
there was no way she could know that he logged in 12 hours ago
ian says (13:24):
you ve completely missed the point haven't you?
ian says (13:26):
ok... lets break it down into nice little pieces on just why WR's conduct with regard to reyno is wrong - and is now going to result in war:

1.) According to yourself - when it was proposed under the original term of the ultimatum that World Republic members who are inactive should be open to being assassinated, sabbed or massed to open them up for farms - it was WRONG to do so, and any action
like that would be deemed hostile. You said players should wait for their defences to simply drop naturally to farming - something The Imperium and The Others accepted
ian says (13:27):
2.) Yet here we are - with you having authorised sara to assassinate/ kill reyno to get to his UU - knowing full well you had said the above in the ultimatum topic - and would deem it a hostile act/ declaration of war if anyone did the same to any of WR's members... yet your happy to do the same to non WR members who are seemingly weak
ian says (13:28):
that leads to point 3:

3.) This is an outright act of a strong player/ alliance, deliberately and intentionally committing an hostile act against a smaller player - whichever way you sugar coat that, thats the weak being picked on by the strong - thats bullying

4.) The above difference between the way you treat world republic players, and the way you treat non world republic players is simply
double standards - one rule for WR members, another rule for the rest of the server
ian says (13:29):
5.) Reyno's defence had hit 0 by the time of octovber the 4th. By the time of october the 7th his defence back to 86million power - thats a clear indication of his returning to AW and becoming active again. Sara didn';t have to know he had logged in within 12hours - she should merely have spied him
ian says (13:30):
which she would have certainly have done so - in order to calculate how many assassins to send etc... - and the simple fact her strike was repell3ed
and that she had to assassinate him - showed that reyno had become active and rebuilt a defence
yet 3minutes after her strike being repelled, she assassinated him 8 times
and then another 4 - 5 times the next day
ian says (13:31):
thats simple revenge - revenge against an active player, revenge by your own admittance - which was authorised by you.
all of this - was in breach of your own code of conduct and in breach of the ultimatum
ian says (13:32):
finally - myself, you and reaper had pretty much agreed upon peace - that agreed concerned you stopping accussing The Imperium of lieing/ manipulating, and admitting you do infact have spies in your ranks - we were all but garanteed peace
ian says (13:33):
instead - you created that topic - in the process accussing us of lieing/ bullying you - and thus breached that agreement. Given you boosted your defence higher during the time we were discussing the agreement... that looks pretty much like an attempt to stall our attack to buy yourself more time to prepare
you had no wish for peace - otherwise you wouldn't have blown it out of the water by creating that topic, knowing that topic went against everything the agreement concerned.
ian says (13:34):
you ve broke promise after promise, agreement after agreement, where does it end?
ian says (13:35):
You promised you d stop world republic bullying of smaller members - yet you authorise an assassination against reyno. You promised you d enforce the code of conduct - yet you authorised the assassination in breach of the code of conduct
ian says (13:36):
you promised you d come clean about your having a spy in our ranks, and admit that what the imperium has been accusing you of is true in most regards - yet you elect instead to create a topic in contradiction of this. You promised to stop accusing us of bullying/ manipulating people - yet instead you choose to creat that topic
where do your breaches of promises and agreements end?
ian says (13:37):
When will world republic stop assassinating and picking on smaller members, when will world republic stop applying different rules for its members, and different rules for players outside its ranks?
ian says (13:38):
You ve left The Imperium with little choice now - we ve had so much patience with you and world republic, yet everytime we ve trusted WR to act fairly and in accordance with promises.. you act in contradiction of them, and our trust and faith explodes in our face
ian says (13:39):
i m sorry Kenzu - but this is the end of the line. World Republic can eithier agree to those terms... or it doesn't. Thats pretty much all it comes down. If you agree to the terms... it ll undoubtedly impact your sovereign rights - but then again, WR has broke every promise its ever made, and is the alliance most responsible for sufferring and bullying of the smaller players on aderan wars. You ve
lost the right to be completely sovereign by your own actions.
ian says (13:40):
Not to mention that WR has in the past conducted offensive operations against not just smaller players - but other alliances. I m sure i don't have to remind you the reason you have to reaper for trying to infiltrate the company was to sow disunity and start a witch hunt. What did the company ever do to you to warrant such hostility?
ian says (13:41):
Thus.... its game over. Eithier the agreement's met, and world republic has peace - but its conduct and actions will be supervised untill such a point as the imperium empire is happy that you can once again be trusted to abide by promises, and to not pick on small players
or world republic embarks upon the last war of its era.

Thats all it comes down to.
ian says (13:43):
anyway - since i ve basically explained the situation, i ll copy this conversation onto the aderan wars forum so EVERYONE knows the score, and knows the reasons for this.
ian says (13:44):
I m off now. I m sad you chose to create that topic, and authorise the assassination of reyno - we were pretty much garanteed peace, and i had a interesting proposal to make to WR to improve relations between the imperium and WR - which would also have benefitted the game greatly
thats all out of the window now.

Good luck, and think carefully - 12.01 a.m GMT October the 13th draws ever closer.

Kenzu · by Kenzu on Sun Oct 11, 2009 2:05 pm

First of all, no one has been bullied. Reyno was attacked, because he had loads of untrained out, was inactive for weeks, and after the attack messaged Sara saying that he bought the account recently. She apologised for the attack, set him to peace and he was ok with it.
There were no further attacks against him.

Vesper wrote:...
After all of this is over do you think we could count up all the lies Kenzu has said in the last month? Or just how many times he contradicted himself.

Yes please. Write all you know

ian wrote:LOL, well guys and gals - while Kenzu is busy blathering on about the "nasty" Imperium and our trickery and nasty manipulation etc... - as well as all the spies we suppossedly have in World Republic's ranks (all without providing a scrap of evidence to back up his claims) - his members - and since we have not heard a shred of apology or action to show he does not approve of such actions, making him responsible as leader, and World Republic as a whole response as a alliance - are busy picking on yet more small players and breaching their code of conduct - merely breaching yet another term of the ultimatum issued against World Republic.

Souldog has sent me a message the other day (this is proof enough!):

"theirs no point of sending the whol list but here is a part of it !

Name Rank Army Size Last Seen Logs
Lord_Pegasus 6 681,889 [08 Oct] 03:08
Keinutnai 5 1,965,730 [08 Oct] 05:52
Sara 83 1,935,510 [08 Oct] 05:45
Dominoko 579 768 [13 Sep] 10:00
Madrox 287 35,518 [26 Sep] 04:18
Thulkthayer 21 797,106 [08 Oct] 02:37
..."

No one can have this information, without having a WR member spy on our alliance and send information.

For those not in the loop Sara - who's one of world republic's strongest members, and also a HIGH COUNCIL member - assassinated Reyno 8 times on October the 7th, and then unsuccessfully tried to attack him. Reyno did nothing to Sara at all.

Wrong!

Reyno has been an inactive player for at least a week. I know it, because I was farming that guy and his defense weapons were lower and lower with each day. Oh, I forgot to mention that his name changed some time ago.

I gave the info about that person to sara that she can raid him and get all his untrained (there were a lot). The player has been inactive for such a long time and there was no sign of activity, the player was NOT TIE member and Sara first farmed him once and then assassinated that guy a few times.

After a day or more there was a message sent from him to her saying that he bought the account recently and asking if there was a reason for the war declaration.

She excused herself for attacking him, set him to peace, and he replied by saying: "Okay, Thanks Sara =]"

Clearly this conflict has been solved according to WR code of conduct. Who doesn't remember it, I recommend reading it, go to alliance recruitment and read the first post for WR. Code of conduct says that if you attacked a player, you should excuse yourself and try to solve the conflict peacefully.

I am sure that if that person asked to get units back, she would provide him with the untrained units.

Now... here's the problem World Republic now faces:

1.) The code of conduct i made clear to World Republic i fully expected them to enforce and follow, was a essential/ main part of the ultimatum - and i made it clear a failure by the leadership to enforce it, or if it was breached a failure to at least award adequate compensation to the victim of the breach, and to punish the aggressor - would be deemed a breach of the ultimatum.

Sara followed the code of conduct. World of Republic can never be made liable for the actions of one member. Conflict has been solved and therefore shouldn't even be mentioned in such way here. Here is an extract from WR code of conduct:

IF YOU HAVE ATTACKED OTHERS
If you are the agressor, meaning that you have massed someone first without them massing you, don't expect help from WR. You are responsible for your own actions and we advise you to consult us before you mass a player. If you attack anyone in a way that you dont steal kuwal and dont raid units, it can lead to serious consequences. You could be massed yourself, punished by WR by being rejected kuwal bonuses, or kicked out from the alliance for serious offenses.

RESOLVING CONFLICTS
You should try to settle any conflict with words if possible, and if not possible to solve with words, talk to us, and we would find a solution together. World Republic is a strong alliance, therefore the political power and the strength of WR words is much more powerful than that of a single member. If we cannot solve the problem with diplomacy, or the enemy has been too rough on you, we will use military means to defeat the threat.

I can tell you now - Reyno has recieved no such apology, no compensation and to our knowledge, Sara has not been punished. I knew about the breach when it happened - and have for the last 3 days kept quiet to see what Kenzu's actions would be.... given he hasn't acted at all to rectify this crime in the 3 - 4 days it was committed, we can only conclude the code of conduct is not being enforced by World Republic - and consequently World Republic have breached the ultimatum.

Reyno received an apology from Sara personally and responded by saying "Thanks" with a smilie, which I perceive as conflict solved.

2.) Sara is a high council member - what she does, given her position in World Republic - is on behalf of World Republic - again this points towards World Republic not caring about the code of conduct, and thus breaching the ultimatum.

conflict has been resolved according to code of conduct, Reyno is not a commonwealth member, his account was inactive for at least a week.

3.) This is yet another example of World Republic picking on and smashing up smaller players... so another example of why The Imperium is taking a firm stance wth regard to World Republic, and actively trying to stop their bullying of smaller players.

killing 10k units of a 150k inactive player is not what I perceive as smashing smaller players.

4.) Reyno - unfortunately for World Republic - is a commonwealth member.... he is simply helping out The Others currently - but by his own words still regards myself as his leader. That means what happens to him happens to The Commonwealth - and he falls under our protection and responsibility.

Reyno is The Others member, not commonwealth member. Commonwealth members have "[ The Commonwealth (TIE) ]". Reyno doesn't have that, and as he himself has said, he bought the account only recently.

Kenzu - you have failed comprehensively to enforce the code of conduct your members are meant to abide by. You have failed to compensate or reward any victims of World Republic hostility. You have failed completely to stop your members picking on other smaller players not in your alliance. You have failed to be truthful, honest and open with The Imperium concerning your spies in our ranks. You have failed to stop slandering and lieing about The Imperium, and spreading malicious lies. You have failed to abide by ANY of the terms of the ultimatum. You have failed to abide by the peace settlement we had virtually agreed upon, deliberating misleading myself and Reaper to buy time while you prepared for war .......... and worse still - you have failed to stop one of your own High Council members - a leader of World Republic - from acting not just in violation of your own code of conduct and the ultimatum - but failed in stopping that leader of The World Republic - from declaring war upon The Commonwealth, The Imperium and her members. Congratulations.

Reyno didn't ask for a compensation.
I am the leader of an alliance, not a god. I cannot prevent everyone from attacking other players.

http://aderanwars.forumotion.com/personal-wars-treaties-f5/shadow_phoenix-the-company-tie-attacks-disco_vader-world-republic-o-t909.htm

Let me remind you that a Commonwealth member, your alliance member shadow phoenix made an assassination mission against WR member Disco Vader.

WR didn't get involved in this.

In a similiar situation, when one of our members made a failed assassination attempt on your alliance member, you have made an ultimatum.
Do you see that you want me to enforce something you cannot enforce yourself in your own alliance?

I made a public pledge on this forum not so long ago that The Commonwealth would defend the smaller players on this server against World Republic hostility. The Company has since joined The Commonwealth in that pledge - forming The Imperium Empire.

I m bound by that promise - and even more so when i consider the small member happens to be a member of The Commonwealth, simply in another alliance - or at worse a ex-member of The Commonwealth who is a friend and ally. Even more importantly - given the hostility and slander directed at The Commonwealth and myself, i now actively want to uphold that promise, and bring an end once and for all to World Republic hostility and aggression.

Kenzu/ World Republic - i want a 5,000,000,000 kuwal broker sent to myself by 12.01 am GMT October the 13th. This will be used to compensate Korruption, Robert, Tackless Shadow, Cicero and Reyno - small players all of whom who have in the last 2 - 3 months sufferred losses at the hands of World Republic members (all under the responsibility and authority of the current World Republic leadership) due to unwarranted and unprevoked aggression upon them.

What do you need to compensate Korruption for? Korruption haven't been attacked by Zeroager. In fact, there should be compensation by Korruption to Zeroager for massing him.

You cannot ask for compensation of the other players, because you have already dropped all demands for compensation before.

I want an apology issued here and now to The Commonwealth, The Company and the server as a whole for all present and past actions of unjustified hostility by World Republic, an apology issued to The Commonwealth and The Company for the lies and slander committed against us, an admittance of the fact you have a spy in The Commonwealth - and lied in breach of the ultimatum issued by The Imperium to World Republic, and which you ve repeatedly lied about since, i want an apology for going back upon/ breaching the almost-completed peace treaty the leaders of The Commonwealth (myself), The Company (reaper) and World Republic (kenzu) had negotiated to avoid war, and an apology for failing to uphold ANY of the terms of the ultimatum issued to World Republic - yet outright lieing saying it has done so, and accussing The Imperium of being liars and manipulaters for saying otherwise.

I have to agree on this, because you give us no choice and your partner alliance The Company is too strong for us to defend ourselves from them.

Therefore I apologise to everyone in the Aderan Wars for the trouble I have caused.

Lastly, but not least - i want World Republic to accept without question (under pain of death) the deployment of 1 member from The Commonwealth and 1 member from The Company into World Republic's ingame alliance, given adviser access ingame, and with full high council access to World Republic's forum. These will function as Imperium Empire inspectors and ambassadors... who will keep a watch on World Republic's actions and conduct, to ensure that you abide by Imperium "humanitarian" laws (that you don't attack small players without justification, and that you don't deal with crisis's with force, without first exhausting all diplomatic options) - these members should be consulted by World Republic's members and leadership upon ALL diplomatic action or military force conducted by World Republic, and will serve as the inspectors and ambassadors of The Imperium to ensure Imperium humanitarian laws are met by World Republic - since obviously you are incapable of abiding by your own code of conduct - and can't be trusted as far as the server can throw you.

I will accept your demand.
You can decide what 2 TIE members will join World Republic to spy on us.

(Again, because you give us no other chance and want to destroy our sovereignty completely)

Finally - i want 10 good reasons from World Republic on just why The Imperium shouldn't wipe World Republic out here and now for all the repeated lies, breaches and deception conducted by World Republic in the last 3months - and 10 good reasons on just why The Imperium should trust any word/ promise made by World Republic, given your now on something like your 10th chance (having betrayed our trust the other 9 or so times).

I can give you 11 good reasons:

-World Republic is very active at finding new players outside the game. This helps the memberbase grow
-World Republic acts a major power counterbalancing TIE. Without WR, Aderan Wars will be a game dominated by one faction, which will lead to a downfall of active playerbase.
-Most, if not all of the things you accuse WR of are not true. Therefore you should not punish us for this
-If you destroy World Republic, you will be bored, because there will be no one you can be angry at.
-You should not mass the whole alliance, just because you are angry at one person.
-It wouldn't be fair to have 2 alliances gang up on 1, when one of the alliances is two times bigger than the 1 alliance.
-Because World Republic
-Because you already made 1 ultimatum long time ago, we have fulfilled most of your demands and you promised not to attack us.
-Because you made a 2nd ultimatum asking me to admit that I have a spy, which I was willing to do, because it was the only way I could save World Republic. Then, when you realised that everyone would know that you have forced me to admit, you decided to think over it. To change the wording of what I would say. I accepted your second demand.
-If you continue to hold on to the third demand, and we accept it, you shouldn't destroy WR, and you should not make any more demands.

And a bonus, 11th reason:
-You shouldn't mass players, who failed attacks, or killed a small fraction of counterparts armysize and are willing to cover the costs of the victims. I think most of our members agree to cover the costs for the players they have harmed, but then, players who harmed WR members should cover the costs they have inflicted on our members.

None of these demands are open to negotiation - we are tired of negotiations and false promises.

Failure to meet ALL of these demands by 12.01 a.m GMT October the 13th ..... will result in World Republic embarking upon the last war of its era.

Regards.

Ian - Commonwealth Grand Chancellor and Co-leader of The Imperium Empire.

How about instead of seding the whole TIE to destroy World Republic, me, Keinutnai, and you ian will have a 1 vs 1 duel in 1 month time on 10th November 2009 19:00 GMT, so that you can build up. Let's keep it fair and have only 1 person fight 1 person.

I can see this is personal. You hate me. There is no need to pull TIE and WR into it.

Let's have a fair fight! We have same population, I will give you some time to catch up with your military and we can have a fair gentleman's duel.

Do you agree not to go to war with World Republic and not ask TIE members to mass WR members and at the same time have a duel with me on 10th November 2009 at 19:00 GMT? The duel will last until one person surrenders and the person who wins was right.

PS: Please extend the date of the ultimatum and give us a chance to prevent war. We have agreed to 2 ultimatums already. How can we know that if we agree to your third ultimatum and fulfill your demands, you will not come again in one week with a 4th ultimatum?

All 3 ultimatums sofar are based on ideas you cannot prove, only on things you merely think. You have no proof that I knew about any spies. You have no proof that there were spies in TIE at the time you made the first ultimatum, and you are wrong when you say that WR has done wrong things, because Sara has made an apology and conflict with Reyno has been solved long time before you wrote the ultimatum.

Please, dont force World Republic to go to war.

Kenzu · by Kenzu on Sun Oct 11, 2009 2:10 pm

Ian, are you accepting a duel between me, Keinutai and you on 20th November 2009 19:00 GMT?

Do you promise to leave both TIE and WR out of this thing?
Promising that WR will not be harmed by TIE members,
there will be no massings against WR members
and promising that you will drop all of your ultimatums.

ian · by ian on Sun Oct 11, 2009 2:39 pm

Kenzu - i ll need to speak to reaper/ the imperium HC in regard to an official reply back to your post.

However - on the personal note. I need you to understand one thing (something i ve told you on more than one occassion already). I don't hate you, nor even dislike you. I ve said before now on this forum - and a reasonably large amount of times infact on various posts - that in my eyes World Republic has great potential if you just became more see through/ democratically accountable to your members, and more open with players outside your alliance - and if you implemented a strong training regime in World Republic. You know how to play the game....

However, it seems all of this has gone over everyone's head. So i ll say it again - when i post on this forum, its normally in my official capacity as leader of The Commonwealth, and joint-leader of The Imperium. What i think doesn't matter - my job as leader is to simply uphold imperium policies, and act in defence of them.

Every Imperium policy made is influenced strongly by myself - but not solely from myself. It reflects the will of our members, and the interests of our members. You may view me as your number one enemy, but the fact is i m far from the most hostile player out there. I may take a hardline against you here and now, because thats what Imperium policy dictates i do.

You may not know it, but there have been times in the past when i ve been in significant disagreement with other High Council and Imperium members - in arguiing in favour of peace rather than war against World Republic. So please don't mistake my role as Commonwealth leader and Imperium joint-leader, as being reflective off my personal views.

Commonwealth and Imperium policy and need's come before my own policy's and views. This has always been the case the last 3 years i.e. many of my "greatest" enemies (such as Aura, Martin at one point, sinath etc...) who as leader of The Commonwealth i ve in the past been forced to opposse and stand against, have at the same time been friends, or at worste aquainatances i hold no personal grudge against. Commonwealth/ Imperium interests always take priority over my own interests and views. This has always been how it is - and will remain so.

Anyway - in regard to your dual offer, i can't give a response yet untill i ve had chance to speak to the imperium HC regarding whether you ve accepted the demands. If you have - i agree a dual would be a good way of releasing some of the tension built up between the 2 alliances. However - i m well aware of the fact that there's a reasonable amount of Imperium members who are just drooling at the prospect of getting into a war with World Republic due to various reasons (again... this links back to my point about my acting in support of Imperium policies, rather than necessarily being the creator of these policies) - so if there is some sort of dual... it won't be able to be a 1 vs. 1 - maybe a 3 vs. 3 or a 4 vs. 4 or something?

But... i ll get back to you once i ve had chance to speak to The Imperium HC.

Vesper · by Vesper on Sun Oct 11, 2009 7:21 pm

Kenzu wrote:

I gave the info about that person to sara that she can raid him and get all his untrained (there were a lot). The player has been inactive for such a long time and there was no sign of activity, the player was NOT TIE member and Sara first farmed him once and then assassinated that guy a few times.

The point is not whether he was a TIE member or not at the time. The fact that he is a person with a 80mil+ defense is a damn sure sign he is active. Assassinating a player that appears defenseless in my opinion is "bullying" every way you slice it.

~Phantom~ · by ~Phantom~ on Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:06 pm

why do you continue to talk with ian kenzu im the official leader of TC and TIE...you as our head intelligence agent should know this

any further argument or discussion from WR should be directed at me.
@ Vesper...Kenzu as an agent of TC knows and knew that reyno was and is a TC member hes just blowing smoke

Special Agent 47 · by Special Agent 47 on Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:41 pm

Kenzu wrote:It is no secret that TIE (The Company and The Commonwealth) has spies (not just 1 spy, but more) in World Republic.

World Republic is completely aware of this fact and therefore TIE asking World Republic not to have spies in TIE (The Company and the commonwealth) is completely ridiculous and strengthens the fact that TIE, particularly ian is trying to bully World Republic.
Are you impared in some way? You and your alliance blindly and publicly act as you did you still claim YOU are being bullied? Ian, Reaper, PLEASE end the pathetic rule of this simple minded man. If you will not then allow me to. Allowing him to continue his mockery of sanity is wearing very thin on my patience.

Not only do we have proof that TIE has spies in our alliance, we have been told by a TIE member who the spies in our alliance are AND Ian and Reaper themselves mentioned things, which they could know, only if they had spies in WR.

TIE spies operating on World Republic are the reason, why the request of Commonwealth and Company not to have WR spies in their alliances is void, is not part of the ultimatum anymore, (since TIE engaged in such practices themselves).

Therefore any attack of TIE on World Republic on the grounds that WR has spies in TIE would be wrong and shouldn't be accepted by the community.
What right have YOU of all people got to say what the community should or should not accept??? You are the reason your alliance is in the trouble it is in now. YOU actively and publicly tried to recruit spies and stir internal trouble in every major alliance not bound to you. YOU supported The Company in its war efforts against GD, and then stabbed us in the back. YOU have and continue to bully smaller players, all the while claiming to "be the helper and protecter of smaller/newer accounts." YOU are the one who time and time again have flat out and bold faced lied over and over again.

Then you have the nerve and the gall to say its perfectly fine for you to do the dirty deeds you have done, but its WRONG for you to be punished for them? You know why its perfectly lagitamate for TIE to make these demands, and to enforce them? Because you brought this on yourself. You have sentenced yourself and your alliance to pay this price.

The only acceptable reason (according to my opinion) why one alliance can go to war with another is that one alliance has been attacked by the other, but not if only 1 member attacks, since it could have been a spy working for the other alliance to give a false pretense for an attack
Again, are you that stupid of the ways of war? Are you totally inept as a military leader? So by your reasoning, Its perfectly fine for me to level your alliance by myself, and you and your alliance will only respond to me alone and leave all of TIE out of it since it is the action of one? You are begging for your own destruction.

Reaper, Ian, PLEASE grant me this one request. Please unleash me and let me teach this fool what true pain and suffering is. I will not fail, I will not quit, Not until each and every one of them has been cleansed by fire, and Kenzu's followers shown how foolish they are to blindly follow a fool.

(If one member masses someone from another alliance, that alliance should mass back that one person, or get the other alliance to kick the member out.)

I think you would agree that it would be unfair if a newbie from alliance A masses a newbie from alliance B and in respons alliance B masses alliance A.

If WR isn't allowed to have spies in TIE, TIE isn't allowed to have spies in WR (however there have been TIE spies in WR for much longer time than the date when ultimatum has been declared. Furthermore, during the time, when ultimatum discussions were going on, ian was very active at gaining secret information from WR through spies for his cause.)
WHO ARE YOU TO MAKE ANY DEMANDS FROM US?????????

You started this, and we will finish it. We have the right to make these demands. You openly tried to recruit spies, You publicly slandered us for stopping you from bullying smaller players. You now try to play the victim in these demands. Well you are a victim, BY YOUR OWN HAND.

"The strong will do what they can, the weak will suffer what they must"

You are the weak, and it is you who bring suffering to your alliance and its people.

Therefore WR is no longer bound to the agreement not to have spies in TIE.
If World Republic will be attacked, injustice would have happened, as the agressor had no right to attack World Republic.
You ARE bound. Are you to blind to see that? Why are you bound you ask? Because you NEVER recanted your lies, you never revieled your spy, even after openly admitting you had one.

We have no right to attack you? You truely are delusional and I pitty your allies to blind to see it. YOU committed acts of war against US. Not once, but multiple times. You tried to recruit spies. You tried to stir touble among our ranks, You stabbed us in the back after the GD war. So in fact YOU are the AGGRESSOR. So you have spilled your injustice on us, not the other way around.

An agressor is never right, and pre-emptive attacks on others are never justified, as World Republic has never went to war with another alliance, never made a pre-emptive attack and isn't planning to attack an alliance either.
So by your inept line of thinking NO war will ever happen, and lies, slander, and open attacks not of a military move should be let go. I say it again, YOU are a damn fool if you think that"s how war works.

If an alliance launches a "pre-emptive strike" (attacking without declaring war days in advance), people shouldn't cooperate with such an alliance ever again.
It amazes me you even have the ability to fire a weapon, because you obviously know nothing about how to fight, nor win a war. You think your opponent is going to tell you "days in advance" there is a war coming? So you can grow your military and make it harder on them? so you can retrain your income units so they are untouchable instead of killable?

Are You Mad?

Kenzu, you have a war coming, if not by Ian, if not by Reaper, if not by TIE, you still have a war coming. Consider that your warning.

And by all means you are NO counter balance to either of us alone, yet alone together. You are a delusional little man with dreams and ambition much larger then your abilities will ever allow.

Vesper · by Vesper on Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:13 am

ut oh, sounds like kenzu pissed off the wrong person this time Wink

something you fail to be seeing Kenzu is that the only reason ian is trying for peace is for you. He is the one fighting in your defense to prevent a war. When you do something as stupid as you did by making this post it makes it much harder on him to prevent people like SA47 from just smashing the hell out of you. I do agree that no matter what happens some1 will mass Kenzu whether that person is from The Commonwealth, The Company, or a unforeseen enemy i have no doubt that someone will be massing this sad excuse for an alliance leader

reaper · by reaper on Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:43 am

its not just sa47 i am holding back most of my alliance has asked can they do some thing i have had to tell them NO please dont and kenzu thinks me and ian are the bad guys lol bet he will change his mind if i give the go ahead on his massing and trust me kenzu there is a list of members waiting to do so

ian · by ian on Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:59 am

Vesper wrote:ut oh, sounds like kenzu pissed off the wrong person this time

something you fail to be seeing Kenzu is that the only reason ian is trying for peace is for you. He is the one fighting in your defense to prevent a war. When you do something as stupid as you did by making this post it makes it much harder on him to prevent people like SA47 from just smashing the hell out of you. I do agree that no matter what happens some1 will mass Kenzu whether that person is from The Commonwealth, The Company, or a unforeseen enemy i have no doubt that someone will be massing this sad excuse for an alliance leader

lol, well to be honest, that defence having been under siege for the better part of 3months, is now finally on the verge of complete collapse. Myself and Reaper no longer have the will or motivation to fight 2 diplomatic fronts - one against those in The Imperium who (righly) want war against WR for many various reasons, with us arguing against it and still urging we give world republic one last chance - and one against World Republic, trying to get them to conform to "acceptable" standards to avoid war in the long run. A victory in the world republic front (with them conforming to acceptable standards) would have allowed us to strengthen our hand in the argument for peace against those in favour of war.

Sadly - Kenzu's audacity, motivation and ability to cling onto his and World Republic's "old" ways - the ways viewed as unacceptable by large chunks of the active serverbase - has been successfull. We ve failed comprehensively in getting World Republic to conform to better standards.

I hereby am announcing i m giving up on the world republic diplomatic front - congratulations Kenzu, you ve achieved your "victory" - I personally won't be bothering you guys again in trying to get you to conform to what TIE views as acceptable.. so feel free to act how you see fit... I admit defeat in the attempt to get you to conform. Unfortunately though - if you can't conform, you have to die. As such - i m hereby giving up on the diplomatic peace front as well. Instead, soon enough i have no doubt, i ll be forced to open up another diplomatic front - the "World Republic will surrender unconditionally" front.

Ladies, Gentlemen - and especialy SA47 - you have my consent and full unconditional political, military and economical support to fire at will - all you need now is Reaper's consent.

Kenzu & World Republic - as a large chunk of The Imperium could tell you, myself along with Reaper have actually been the main driving force behind thinking up and giving you repeated chances in the form of the various requests, then demands, then ultimatums - in the process delaying any war and thus maintaining the peace for a short while longer - each time i issue a demand, its had the effect of stalling the movement towards war while The Imperium waits for your response, to see if World Republic changes. Each time its proved to be a wait in vain.

More than that - each time i ve acted in support of peace - by issuing demands that you change how you act, thus stalling the war a little bit longer - not to mention reform being the only way of achieving a long term peace - all i ve ever got from you guys is accusations of me being the bully, the aggressor, the bad guy, the nasty person. I m sick of it - and have had enough.

In light of all things said and done by World Republic, in light of all the chances for peace being repeatedly blown out of the water by World Republic conduct, in light of the personal insults and aggression directed at myself, and in light of the huge internal pressure now building up in The Imperium in favour of war - i will now be officially moving my support from supporting the argument in favour of peace - to supporting the argument in favour of war.

You d better pray that there are still some Imperium Supreme High Command members willing to argue in defence of peace - because if there isn't, there is literally no force on Aderan Wars which will stop The Imperium once it goes to war - and I hate to break the news to you... but i think myself and Reaper might well have been the last voices arguiing in favour of peace and yet more chances being given to World Republic, on The Imperium Supreme High Command staff.

You reap what you sow. I m now convinced that long term peace cannot be achieved without a fundamental restructure of World Republic - a restructure which can only be achieved by use of force.

My vote and support hereby goes to war being waged against World Republic, untill the unconditional surrender of World Republic for whatever (and by whatever... i mean literally whatever) terms The Imperium see's fit.

Only thing now standing in the way of The Imperium going to war is Reaper needs to give his consent and agreement - because i ve just issued my consent and agreement to war.

Reaper mate - its your call. Act based upon what you see fit and honestly think is the right choice... though ideally don't post whether you give consent here publically on the AW forum... lets keep world republic guessing Very Happy

Kenzu/ World Republic - the main reason i now fully support war regardless of demands, is simply due to the way i ve been treated by yourselves. You mistook my attempts at peace for bullying. You accussed me of being a bully, a liar and a manipulator. You will now pay dearly (if i have anything to say in it) for those insults and allegations - and for the countless crimes against various players committed by World Republic throughout your history. I will no longer support the argument for peace to safeguard/ benefit the likes of you.