For Lasting Peace

"You have sown the wind, you shall reap the whirlwind."
I love that.

*grin* It is so entertaining to read someone begins with "You don't trust me", and then writes an entire story that is worthless without basic trust. What purpose could you have, other as to sway the minds of outsiders? Surely you see that all hope of actually convincing TIE to have peace with you is lost. It's just a game of cat-and-mouse being played now..

Hi Kenzu,

I think it is good that for the first time you've stated what you want, rather than responding to demands and technicalities. At least it has triggered a response from Reaper, Special Agent, Ian and Sandwalker with what they want, rather than a finished ultimatum.
Most of the anger and reasons for war are actions from the past. Since you cannot change the past, nothing you do will take away those reasons. I agree with DiscoVader: the game has changed and you have changed. Korruption would not have an army if you hadn't.
If both parties want a way out of this conflict, we need to focus on what both parties need and find a way to address those. If one side predominantly wants retribution, then get on with the pointless killing.
I'll give an example: if one side really wants to stop large players from picking on small players, then make sure there is a group of people small players can complain to, preferably composed of people from different alliances. That has a much better chance of working than having "diplomats" join WR, also because it is curative in nature rather than punitative.
With that respect, I welcome Ian's taking away of the ultimatum. It does provide a chance to work on issues, rather than details, demands, allegations and proof.
Also, you seem to have many capable people in WR. Let them help you, advise wise.

@Vesper: the leader you choose to follow is your own decision, one which may hurt or help, in equal measure.

I personally do not sympathize with WR's members. They made the decision to sit by their leader's side through all of his bad calls. No one forced them to do that.

I respect their act of loyalty and, in a possible future war, we should do well not to lessen the value of that loyalty by sparing the accounts of WR members.

@Universe: Indeed, a well conducted annihilation war is highly expensive, but also highly rewarding if successful.

@Jiro: Make no mistake, I have no problems with the vast majority of WR's member base. I do however have a problem with Kenzu's behavior these past weeks, a problem that I would and have only materialized as part of a bigger group. I would never have voiced my opinion if it was a solitary one, I don't see my views as that important for the community.

@kismet: If you take away the noise, you will see that everything Kenzu has done to adhere to TIE ultimatums has been in the same fashion as that apology. I'm sure if you read Kenzu's most recent apology, you can agree that it succeeds in being inflammatory, as opposed to what it should really be.

@ Lil Monster,,,, Intresting choice of words considering you have a full military pact with WR which can very easily drag you into this war because you ARE PUBLICLY a full military allie to WR. You will be watched to see if you join in the fight, and if you send resources to help your allies. So by all means you should know what this is since you are involved.

@ Vader,,,,,, You want a good reason to War?

*Walks is disco, unloaded 35,000 rounds of amunition in the music equipment, walks out in silence* Will that quiet you down?

As for your veiw on Kenzu, I feel pretty much the same. I don't give a rats ass how good or bad of a leader he is. Fact is when you get caught with your hand in the cookie jar, you got two options. Claim you got framed and your innocent (What Kenzu is STILL doing to this day), or be a man, stand up, admit what you did and apologize(Which Kenzu still has NOT done) Then everyone moves on.

@ Kismet,,,, Which one of us has claimed we have not attacked your members? State a name. I hereby state that WR are my #1 farms and have been for months. When I say we have not "laid a finger on you" it at Kenzu and WR as a WHOLE. If you have a piss poor defense and good kewal out, prepare to get smacked for it. I expect the same in return.

Mitola, guess what, THATS HIS RIGHT as a player of this game. How much kewal was out? what was you guys defense? Please don't embarass yourself further.

Cmarius, wasn't your man paid by Reaper himself? Yeah, guess you missed the memo, again your just looking foolish now.

As for The Company's code of conduct, IT DOESN'T EXIST. You know why???
I can tell you why, because we don't bully, bash, intimidate, or hurt the server in any way, AND because we are strong enough and well lead enough to not require one. In layman terms, we don't need one.

As for the ultimatum, YOUR alliance LEADER Kenzu has not YET forfilled the 1st ultimatum. Yet alone any of the following ones. This will not end until Kenzu wants it too. He and He alone keeps this going and will not let it rest.

Finally, as for "what happens to bullies in the end". Yeah I know, I have spent the better part of my gaming career doing. Just like I am about to do it to Kenzu. You are too blind or too stupid to see it, but its true. I have stayed my hand time after time. I have left active account alone many, many times when profit was there, and i challenge you to find 1 single attack from me on any active account in your ranks. You have NO claim to call me a bully. I have every claim to call Kenzu one.

Your alliance leader is the bully, and I am what happens to bullies.

Kenzu has NO visible issue with English, so I disreguard that arguement

and you are seriously mistaken about the first ultimatum. None of us ever wanted any kewal from any of you. All we wanted we for Kenzu to be a man and fess up to what he had done. Stop lieing. Guess what, he still has yet to do either. NO public aplogy, NO revieled spy, NO recanting of the slander that STILL continues. Kenzu has not complied with ANY ultimatum yet. Makes me wonder if he is lieing to you all or if you are that blindly stupid.

Last but not least Kismet.

If I wanted nothing but war, and didnt have any reguard for the health of this game, you would already be a burning husk, along with the only other 4 accounts with a chance of doing any damage.

Never mistake my kindness for weakness, it will be the last mistake you will ever make.

Disco_Vader wrote:
My real suggestion for stirring up a real war is music. Just try to take away my right to play disco. And just try to play country on my territory -- you'd be asking for it!

*plays Johnny Cash - A boy named Sue.

En garde!

@SA47

The cost will be great for me, in resources, in the lives of men, and probably my seat on The Company's High Council, BUT I promise you one thing, your losses will far exceed mine. Not only in resources, Not only in the lives of your men, Not only in the accounts of your alliance, but it may very well cost you that which you hold most dear. It may cost you WR itself.

So you are willing to destroy the accounts of 90 people in order to "punish" one man?

As for The Company's code of conduct, IT DOESN'T EXIST. You know why???
I can tell you why, because we don't bully, bash, intimidate, or hurt the server in any way, AND because we are strong enough and well lead enough to not require one. In layman terms, we don't need one.

How do you reconcile these two statements, given that in the first one you are trying to intimidate a player into doing what you want him to do. I don't know about your dictionary, but in mine that comes very close. All in all, you seem to like the "I am the biggest player so I am right" argument a lot. This, along with an ego and attitude the size of the server does not help in achieving lasting peace, rather than peace as long as noone dares stand up to you.
There are at least two views possible in this discussion and in one, you are indeed the bully.

I completely agree with jiro.



Let us have a look where WR was involved:

3cats4me and space2050
WR newbie attacking a player who they cannot harm after being farmed
Offense: failed attack 0 damage
Result: WR is punished

Starryager vs. Cicero (september 05)
Starryager assasinate a player to farm him
Offense: 82.500.00 kuwal in killed units
Result: I have told him never to be an agressor. He agreed.

tackless-shadow VS skyshadow (august 08)
WR newbie threatening a player who they cannot harm
Offense: threats of a powerless person
Result: tackless shadow responded to the threats with waiting and then massing him and then sitting on him until WR came to help our helpless newbie massing tackless shadow partially killing 2000 (10% population)

tackless-shadow VS rapmaster (august 16)
WR newbie attacking a player who they cannot harm
Offense: failed attack 0 dama
Result: rapmaster massed, rapmaster apologised

redblublu vs rob3rt (september)
Redblulu attacked rob3rt
Offense: killing roughly 500-5000 units
Result: Redblulu has been told by me to stop his aggression, he agreed and made a peace treaty with robert.

rob3rt vs redblulu (september)
rob3rt attacked redblulu as revenge for the previous war
Offense: killing roughly 500-5000 units
Result: rob3rt made peace with redblulu, and promised not to attack again

rob3rt vs redblulu (september)
rob3rt attacked redblulu again, because redblulu was growing too fast
Offense: killing roughly 500-5000 units
Result: rob3rt after being told not to attack redblulu and continuing has been partially massed loosing 11.000 units, roughly 10% of population.

cmarius (The Company) vs ConnorMacLoud (World Republic) (september 25)
cmarius attacked (sab and assassination) our member.
Offense: 30.000.000 damages
Result: paid by reaper

Korruption vs Starryager (october 07)
starryager threatened korruption for farming him. Later he apologised for the threats. After some time Korruption massed Starryager even though Starryager didnt harm him and apologised.
Offense: Korruption killed over 100.000 miners and wiped his military (50% population)
Result: Korruption continues to bully starryager and sit on his account. After being talked to, he said that he will sit on him until he gets bored of the game. Korruption is clearly bullying a WR member.

As you can see it is not true what ian is trying to make you believe. He says that WR is bullying smaller players, when in fact its the small players of WR who get bullied by others, simply because they are inexperienced in this game. And if you read the threads in the personnal forums section, you will see that it's true!

I am helping them by telling them that they should never threat others and by punishing those, who bully smaller players and don't give them a chance at this game. Obviously this will happen frequently, as their are always new members to World Republic.

Instead of accusing us of being bullies, you should help us protect new players from bigger players. Of course it is wrong when someone threatens you, but if you see that guy is 10 times smaller than you, you will not destroy him. Instead you give him advice what he should do in this kind of situation. You should help new player no matter what alliance they are in and not simply beat up every little guy who is angry at you for stealing his hard earned kuwal. People, please have more empathy!





Now the following is targeted at Ian
(and the last paragraph for TIE members)

"Bullying is repeated acts over time that involves a real or perceived imbalance of power with the more powerful person or group attacking those who are less powerful."

I think thats exactly what TIE is doing to WR.
You are aware of your power and you try to force your will through coercion and threats.

(3cats4me and space2050)
remember when Ian made an ultimatum threatening to destroy WR over an issue where a newbie from WR, declared war on someone from The Commonwealth who he cannot even hurt and didnt make any damage either? It was clear that this happened because of the players inexperience.
What does The Commonwealth do?

Bash World Republic for it, even though nothing happened.

You made an ultimatum, asked for code of conduct and compensations. We have agreed to the ultimatum and you dropped the demands.

This should have been the end of ultimatums, but you went further and kept asking for more and more. We have fulfilled your ultimatum in the best way we could and you shouldn't become greedy and continue bullying us.



You should know that it is a private matter of an alliance if they have spies or not. World Republic doesn't need any spies, because the more you talk, the more hostile you are towards World Republic, the more your members are telling me about the situation in your alliance. Does everyone who gives me information about your alliance count as a spy? Because if they do, then you have 33% of spies in your alliance, including you.

You say I am lying to you, but you have not provided a single proof where I have lied to you.

On the other hand, I know for a fact that you lie every now and then. You have provided me with a self made conversation with lord pegasus that he is your spy. If you took the effort to create such a conversation to lie to me and make me feel he works for you, I don't doubt you will not lie again.

You lied when you said that Sara attacked Reyno and didnt apologise. She has apologised and the conflict has been settled before you knew about it. Why did you make another ultimatum based on this event?

You keep lying so often I cannot be sure when you don't lie.
And I wonder how it is possible, that so many of your members still believe you after I have prove many times that you have lied.

You accuse me of having a spy in your alliance. You said it's Vance. You said you have a proof, why don't you let everyone here see the proof?

If you know for sure that he is someone's spy, why don't you boot him from the alliance? I even believe that you have posted your "evidence" on the forum, and the evidence has been made by you, just like your evidence against lord pegasus.

--------------------------------------------------------------

This part is for TIE members:

Reaper ist much more trustworthy than Ian, but then again he might have been fooled by Ian with certain things.

Now that I have proven that Ian was liying about some things, you should consider all the bad things he might have told you about me. You should never believe a single person, you should question all information and always consider if it was possible that someone could have "produced evidence". Please don't follow your leader blindly. No matter how much you trust him, you should always have a clear mind and not be guided by emotions. You know that he created evidence to destroy my trust in lord pegasus, therefore you should take into account that he might have created evidence to destroy your trust in me. Question everything you see!

Hey Kenzu, I thought the issue here was to start over again with a new page, a clean slate. Proving one side is right or wrong does not help here, not even if there is such a thing as a side who is right.

Your last post only makes me (and others undoubtedly) want war even more.

Who are you trying to convince? What unknown force are you trying to sway? Why are you repeating the same things over and over. You can't fragment TIE. We act as one. The simple fact that you insulted both Ian and Reaper in your last post shows how much you underestimate that unity.

Hell, if even I am made to want war (and Ian can confirm how much I like wars), you reaaally are not hitting the right notes.

You're trying to get TIE to question its own command?

As has been said before, the vast majority of commonwealth players have been playing together for a few years, and they have built up a real trust in each other, our alliance and the leaders.

Ian built this alliance and its because of him that we have done so well on this game and previous games. We all trust in him and are behind him 100% of the way. But don't think we follow him blindly. Most stuff goes through me and I do question a lot of it, and we do discuss and argue over a fair few things. Everyone has an opportunity to post their disagreements and any comments are taken on board and considered, and a lot of decisions get put to vote so its the alliance's choice, not only ian's.

You will not persuade any TIE members to turn on their own leaders, they have the trust and they believe in their leaders, so if I was you, I would stop trying to play these silly games and take a good, long think over what situation you and your alliance have got themselves into.

The only person I am questioning is ian. No one else. He is behind all the lies. He is behind all the trouble.

ian wrote:Kenzu, thats a really nice suicide note you ve just wrote there. Any last requests?

Why is that a suicide note?

Show me some evidence, because I don't think you can provide any real evidence except bollocks.

Right. You guys want a war? Here's a war. Kenzu has had a spy all along, namely me. I'm just too annoyed by him to actually keep saving his ass. I'm sorry, people from the Commonwealth, I did tell him some interesting stuff about our alliance, before I changed my mind.

No harm done, right?

Here you go, go have your little war.